Winchester/TOZ vs Savage

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MailleMas

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Well, I just got approved for a license and and am waiting on Canada Post (yikes). Anyway, I was wondering what the general consensus was on the Winchester Wildcat Target .22. I've mostly made up my mind between it and a Savage Mark II FV.

Apart from the magazine issues on the Wildcat, it seems like a better deal, but I haven't seen much info on how it shoots. Plenty of people seem to swear by its other name, the TOZ 78. Just looking for some input from some people with more experience than me here. Thanks :)
 
I have never had a magazine issue with my TOZ78, its a great rifle and part of my "never sell" crowd in the gun safe. The only Savage rimfire I have used is the basic 17HMR model and it was a pretty nice rifle. I think with either rifle you can not go wrong.
 
for the price, the Wildcat Target is good...hard to find or get the Toz 78 Target. I thought about the WT for my first gun, but after holding a nice Marlin .22LR (I wish I could remember the model) for the same price as the non-target Wildcat, I have begun to think differently. have you held it and seen just how 'light' it is? of course, comfort is important...if it fits you nicely go for it.

there are some decent comments about it on the rimfirecentral.com forum under Winchester...check it out.
 
DAR - the magazine issue with the Winnie is that you can't actually buy one in a store. They are considered 'factory install only' parts. You have to send you gun back to Winchester for them to fit the mag. to your gun. Since is comes with 3 10's and a 5 round mag I don't much care. I figure you'll be able to buy them anywhere before I need them anyway.
 
It may be worht considering that if a repair is needed, Savage Mk II parts are plentiful thanks to the design being around for a long while. I'm not sure that you could find TOZ parts easily if you needed them (mind you, it's probably built like a tank just like all Baikal products)
 
I got mine TOZ-78-01L directly (in person) from Baikal for $220+tax.
It wasn't very good - the action to stock attachment was loose. I was able to get 1 MOA from 100 yards. I couldn't do it again, the best i kept getting was 3-5 MOA. I found that the rear bolt kept getting unscrewed after 100-200 rounds. After some inspection, I found that front bolt a little bit too long and because of that not tightened enough. I was trying to make a quick fix, but ended up with full action bedding. I'm waiting for tomorrow to see a result.
 
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Marlin 915Y and 915YS

Both are excellent. The stainless model is butter. Better sights(fiber optic) and stainless finish.
 
Savage vs Wildcat/TOZ

Probably the question you should ask yourself first is "What do I want to do with it?" A lighter rifle is nice for general plinking, informal shooting, and carrying in the field, but a lot of the more serious shooters tend toward rifles that are a bit heavier, with larger barrels, especially if they shoot a lot.

The spare parts, repairs, warranty, magazines issues have been covered in previous posts. Another thing to consider is accessories available. The Savage Mk II with the heavy barrel comes with Weaver type bases,(a much better scope mounting system,) and the lower priced Mk II comes with a dovetail for scope mounting, as does the Winchester (not as good mounting system). The really good thing about the Savage is the adjustable "Accutrigger."

Here in the West, I shoot well over 2000 rounds of .22 RF a year at Gophers. Two years ago, I bought a Savage Mk II FV Accutrigger with a heavy barrel and was really pleased with it, although I found it a bit light weight for me. I'm a big guy, and I have spent a lot of time shooting target rifles. I got a fairly good deal on a Savage Mk II BV, the laminated stock version, that weighed a bit heavier, and found it suited me better.

A week ago, I found a Savage Mk. II BTVS, the laminated, thumbhole stock, stainless steel version for about half price in the used gun rack at the local gun shop, and bought it. I really didn't need it, but then we can always come up with a good reason why we should have another gun.

As far as shooting goes, there is not really a lot of difference in the accuracy of any of the three.

So, my advice is to pick one that feels good to you. Get one that will do the job that you want it to do. Mount a good scope on it ( forget about the smaller cheap ones designed for low priced .22s and get one with a 1 inch tube, about 4 power. If you go for the Savage, get the heavier barrel one, not the lighter barreled Mark II-G type. Try buying ONE box of different brands of .22 Ammunition and see what the rifle shoots better with. Practice shooting a lot, and keep SAFE.
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For the most part, I'll be shooting gophers. They are just thick here! I don't even know where the shooting range is in town (if we have one). I'll probably try to find out before winter, but really, this gun is for smacking gopher from as far as I can.

I plan on putting on a Tasco 6-24 Mil-dot scope on it. I know, I know - but I don't have alot of options around here or budget for much else. The magnification is over kill, but I can leave it @ 8x (where the mils are 1:1) and still find the little buggers. The 2.5-10 version of the scope has the mils 1:1 @ 10x :-/ My main purpose for getting a Mil dot for a .22 is to practice ranging (not the gophers, I'll range the fence posts etc near them) and getting used to the Mil-dot scale cheaply. Eventually, I'll put one on a centerfire for hunting coyotes.
 
Gopher shooting

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I find that a heavier barrel for gopher hunting is not a handicap. The Savage Mk.II FV works well, and is not really a great weight to carry. The nice thing about heavier barreled rifles is that they seem to "settle in" a bit better when you are holding them for longer range shooting. The additional small bit of weight seems to give them a bit more steadiness.

I have shot the Winchester Wildcat. While accurate, I found it was not for ME, but might be all right for someone else. I am fairly big, and the Wildcat was too light for my tastes. The butt stock seemed to be lacking in depth at the butt plate. However, it might be all right for someone of a smaller stature. Spare parts and service could be a problem. Everyone has their own preferences.

I love the accu-trigger on the Savages. In fact, it it were not for the Accu-trigger, I would not have bought the rifles so easily. It allows easy weight-of-pull adjustments. The Wildcat is not adjustable on the standard model. They are supposed to make a varmint model, but no one has seen one yet. SIR (Cabelas) have some on back order but can not give a date of arrival. They had only one regular one in stock on Saturday June 7th. They had to wait over a year to get some of the regular ones. A good crisp trigger will generally allow better accuracy in shooting. Extra magazines you will need. If you lose one, you now have a single shot rifle. I prefer 5 round ones, because the 10 round one is too long and will dig into your back. Get a sling and use it. Savage 5 round mags are about $15. I use three, and when the shooting is fast and furious, you will use them all.

You might consider an inexpensive laser rangefinder. Some Bushnells are available that range out to 500 or 600 yards, and cost about $200. For gophers, this will give you more than enough accuracy.

Also, get a good pair of binoculars. My walking around binoculars are Steiner Military/Marine binos. They cost about $250 and are well worth the price. They are fairly light and have really good optics. I can carry the Binoculars, the rangefinder, and ammo in a small over the shoulder one strap small case of the type given out by Travel Bureaus. I can carry up to 500 rounds of .22 in a Tupperware Container and I have a smaller container that can carry about 200 rounds. The 200 rounder is in the pack, and the 500 rounder is the refill reservoir. That way, I can grab the rifle and pack, and go shooting without too much trouble. I leave the 500 round container in the vehicle when I get to a field.

I live in southern Manitoba, and I find that I can sit in one place and shoot 20 or 30 rounds at gophers from one spot out to 125 yards. I frequently will pick a spot, then range several prominent objects such as fence posts, rocks, water tank, trees, or creek banks. I draw up a small range card, and when a gopher pops up near one of my pre ranged objects, a fast shot can be made.

Welcome to the sport. You'll never be the same again!
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