....with a good bullet...

Hornady Inter-lock 9.3 bullets hold together perfectly in the lab on ballistic gelatin.....I know a buddy that spined a 5x5 elk on a cutline with a .338 win mag 225gr SST ..down he went...up he got never to be seen again...no failures to date with the Nosler Partitions as last week another black bear got introduced to a 6.5x55 /140gr..................Harold
 
Longwalker said:
i have seen two standard cup and core .308 150 grain bullets stop dead in the humerus/scapula joint of two different elk. ( Hornady SPIL and Rem CL) Both times the elk would have gotten away unless shot again in a better spot.

I have had 180 gr. standard cup and core .308 bullet ( CIL KKSP) deflect upwards after hitting the Humerus of a deer, bullet never penetrated the chest cavity, just followed the outside curve of the ribs and ended up near the backbone. Weight was about 20% remaining. Deer required another shot or would have gotten away.

I lost an elk when I took a shot through the rumen with a .35 Whelen bullet ( 225 Nosler BT) that was not able to provide the penetration I was accustomed to with the 250 grain Speer GS. Bullet never reached the lungs.

I had a whitetail die quickly from tiny shrapnel through the lungs when shot broadside through the ribs with a Remington .308 150 gr. Bronze point. Bullet blew up so completely that none of the fragments even made it to the far side of the chest cavity. If that bullet had hit the shoulder it would likely not have penetrated the lung cavity.

I had a 225 Sierra .358 bullet fired from my .35 whelen at 20 yards and about 2700 fps fail to expand at all on a broadside shot at 20 yards on a whitetail buck. Not much reaction to the shot, no blood trail, tiny exit hole, lungs hardly damaged at all. Deer ran for about 300 yards before laying down and eventually dying. I was thankful for good tracking conditions.

These experiences are why I use mostly Nosler partitions, Accubonds, Grand Slams, and TSX bullets for any serious or very big game hunting. For deer I prefer standard cup and core bullets, but in the medium-heavy weight for caliber, no lightweights.
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Interesting. The experience that made me start reloading was the time I shot a white tail buck at less than 10 yards with a Remington Bronze Point. The deer ran, and we lost it after about 3 hours. Next day the ravens revealed where it was, and our "autopsy" showed that the bullet had hit the near shoulder and splashed. I started then with Nosler Partitions, and still use them in a couple of rifles. Accubonds are gaining use in my rifles, and I have tried some Barnes bullets, but I can't think of a single time a Partition did not do what I wanted. I often wonder why I try anything else.
 
Any bullet will work when things go right. I like to use bullets that work when everything go wrong.

And yes, I've had very frangible bullets blow up on a deer shoulder at close range/high velocity.

And of course, hunting bullets are CHEAP. Even if you use the most expensive hunting bullet out there, it's still cheap in the grand scheme of things. You aren't going to be pumping out thousands of rounds at the range or on a gopher patch with your premium hunting ammunition.
 
It's false economy to cheap out on a bullet,wasted game,wasted time spent tracking and needless animal suffering.Sight in with cheaper bullets of the same profile/weight developing a load,adjust seating depth for the high end hunting bullets, re-test and reserve for game.The former is like buying tires for your Ferrari at Walmart and having them come apart.....who knew.......but I did save some money.....some things you shoot may even wish to kill you......Harold
 
35 Whelen 250gr Core-Lokt spitzer factory loads on Moose: at close range a mid shoulder shot failed to drop it. 2nd and 3rd shots through the lungs then it piled up. The bullet that struck the shoulder didn't penetrate very deep and fragmented badly. These bullets downed the Moose but it was expected that the first shot would have dropped it.

Better results with Swift A-Frame and Barnes X bullets. Follow up shots not generally needed.
 
I put two Hornady 9.3 /286gr SP's into opposing shoulders of a cow moose at 180 yards,both never made it to the lungs.Then upon approaching the downed cow ,it lept up required 3 more to keep it down at point blank.Two raking chest hits and one through the pumpkin.Harold
 
Those types of incidents are always exciting. Supports using bullets of proven quality. :eek:

Always approach downed animals assumed to be dead from behind. Then you have more time to react in case it gets up and turns toward you intent on ruining your day.

 
Gatehouse said:
Any bullet will work when things go right. I like to use bullets that work when everything go wrong.

And yes, I've had very frangible bullets blow up on a deer shoulder at close range/high velocity.
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Bingo!! ........ Velocity plays a very big part in the whole equation. Match the bullet to the cartridge and your results will improve.

Example ...... Look at how the same 30cal bullet will perform in 300Savage compared to a 300WM. Many C&C bullets have made for specific cartridges like the 303 and 30-30. You can be assured that they will work well enough at the expected velocity. Such might not be the case if shot at higher speeds. I don't shoot magnums or and uber fast chamberings. I do use lightweight NPs in my 257R but have always had good luck with 100gr Hornady SPs in the same rifle. These bullets were probably designed for the Roberts and/or 250Savage thus the good results.

I don't think that terminal results are as cut and dried as many think. We want our game to drop at every shot/every time. This simply does not happen and blaming the bullet is not always the the cause for the problem. There are far too many variables to generalize.

Someone mentioned shooting a moose in the hump that got up and ran off. The top of the hump is just an extension of the spinal fins. If the spinal cord is not broken, the moose runs .... so don't blame the bullet. Same results can happen with a neck shot.
 
Longwalker said:
For deer I prefer standard cup and core bullets, but in the medium-heavy weight for caliber, no lightweights.
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Good plan that will giver lower velocity and better results.

Look at the reputation that the 7x57 has for excellent penetration with the C&C 175gr RN or the 6.5x55 with the same type bullet in 160gr.
 
One experience with poor performance on a broadside deer with a .270 Win. shooting 130 gr. Nosler Accubonds back in 2007.
The bullet blew apart on the point of the deer's right shoulder and it turned and loped off into the bush. Thankfully, the deer was recovered about 100 yards away. On examination, the lethal wound was caused by a small piece of jacket that nicked one of the front lobes of the deer's lungs. There was no othe penetration into the chest cavity and no marks on the left side of the chest cavity. Zero. Nada.
Went back to Barnes TSX's after that. Night and day. I figure a hunter owes his game a humane death. The bullet is one of the least expensive elements of a hunt. So why cheap out?

Oh, destroyed front right shoulder due to the superficial nature of the bullet's disintegration.
 
Bergers are also grenades even at 600 yards on elk with a .300 RUM......won't use them again.....Harold
 
I've actually come to appreciate the berger grenades. After accumulating a good number of kills with them I haven't had them not penetrate to the vitals, even on elk through the shoulder. No exit wound, just a big mess in the chest cavity.
 
Best to just know your bullet, and shoot accordingly, or chose the bullet that suits you hunting style.

I've hunted, and really like, both Bergers and Fail Safe's out of a 30-06, for example. One is a nuclear bomb when shot straight into the boiler but will only penetrate 18" maximum, and one will laser beam through a massive moose from most any angle, but only leaves a pinkie diameter wound channel. They're both great a what they are made for, but don't mix them up!
 
Very mixed feelings about the Bergers on it game. Had a couple early failures with 190 VLDs in a
.300 Win where shoulder it deer stopped the bullet before it went through the ribs. That had me swearing at and off VLDs for hunting.

In the meantime, a couple friends who are among the very few that that I'll accept their observations as gospel were piling up strings of kills with 180 grain 7mms in STWs. With a great deal of uneasiness I gave them a try. They flat out crush animals. Jury is still out though.

Price is a poor indicator of performance, although if I sold
bullets for a living I'd bark up that tree. Bullet prices change from country to country but they don't work better when the price doubles.
 
Last year my brother shot a nice mature bull moose at about 80 yards with 180 grain federal fusions. The bullet hit a rib and completely disintegrated. The lung on one side was demolished, but the other one untouched. The moose ran about 100 yards straight through the trees where he fell down. By the time he got to it the moose was still alive and struggling to get up. He put one more in the pumpkin to put him out of his misery.

Did the bullet do its job? I guess so, he's in the freezer. Unfortunately, I have a little more respect for the game I'm hunting than to see an animal suffer.

Every time the discussion comes up about quality hunting bullets, not many people will share a bad experience with a partition. Like somebody else said, the right bullet has to be paired with the right chambering and barrel twist to perform.
 
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