With covid travel bans , outfitters might.take a huge hit

QUOTE>>>>>With no vaccine or effective treatment, this devastating pandemic affected every inhabited region in the world, including Canada, where it killed 55,000 Canadians. It came in multiple waves. The first wave took place in the spring of 1918, then in the fall of 1918, a mutation of the influenza virus produced an extremely contagious, virulent, and deadly form of the disease. This second wave caused 90% of the deaths that occurred during the pandemic. Subsequent waves took place in the spring of 1919 and the spring of 1920.<<<<<ENDQUOTE

The Canadian population in 1911, according to the 1911 Census, was 7,200,000 so 0.76% of the population died, but at that time the urban population of Canada was only 47%; currently the urban population is 81.4%. Anecdotal evidence suggests that deaths in urban areas far exceeded deaths in the rural population, due, ostensibly, to social distancing in rural areas.

Hold on tight for the ride.
 
remyltr said:
I am supposed to be setting up atleast 18 bear stands next month for an outfitter
I can see me doing it but cant see any clients
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If I was you, I would want to be paid up front for that work as you completed it. Being paid on retainer would ensure you don't do the work & then end up not getting paid...

As others are saying this pandemic is hitting everyone.

Cheers
Jay
 
Like stated by most, not just outfitters but all businesses.

Also, I currently have draw applications in New Mexico, Wyoming and Montana, with very good chances of drawing at least four very expensive tags in Montana and Wyoming. If the border remains closed I'll be in the whole for a huge chunk of change.
 
scruffee said:
Like stated by most, not just outfitters but all businesses.

Also, I currently have draw applications in New Mexico, Wyoming and Montana, with very good chances of drawing at least four very expensive tags in Montana and Wyoming. If the border remains closed I'll be in the whole for a huge chunk of change.
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Crazy!!! That's gotta be the first time you ever wished NOT to draw tags!

Fingers crossed for ya NOT to draw tags if the border remains closed!
 
Weird times down under fellas.....

here i am with a job but about to quit it (for my dad) to go hunting fallow deer rut............

everyone else losing their job an i got one i am not into , hold onto it for now but faaaaaar k me.

medias been hectic here but maybe there is a point to it all.

we r end of the line for most supply here so business as normal, alot of tourists coming thru tho with can spread the desease to here..... im gettin so angry
 
WhelanLad said:
Weird times down under fellas.....

here i am with a job but about to quit it (for my dad) to go hunting fallow deer rut............

everyone else losing their job an i got one i am not into , hold onto it for now but faaaaaar k me.

medias been hectic here but maybe there is a point to it all.

we r end of the line for most supply here so business as normal, alot of tourists coming thru tho with can spread the desease to here..... im gettin so angry
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Lots of groups of Canadians returning back home here as well.
Yes, I said groups , the idiots flock together to waddle to the vessel to get them back to the Island.
Surgical masks and some/most wearing gloves.
They all seem to be wearing the same style of mask and that leads me to speculate they are given this at the Airport.
Suitcases all taped up securely too.
Stay Safe WL and slog that job out for as long as you can.
Gotta do your part to keep the economy rolling Down Under.
Rob
 
RyoTHC said:
I’d hire an outfitter for a reasonable price to hunt to support the market but since they cater to rich Americans their prices are absolutely insane.
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To dispel some common misconceptions, the reason for the prices is the money the system we live and work in requires it. In BC you have to own your outfitting territory, and the costs run into the millions for top ground, and that ground comes with a limited number of tags to pay for it. So hence the price of stone sheep hunts.

In my outfitting operation I’m personally invested for most of a million with gear and equipment, making payments on that we can’t unfortunately sell our finite tags (quota) for a couple thousand bucks. Or we’d be paying up to five figures per hunter, here at least, to send folks out hunting.

As for us in this economic storm, we’re no worse off than anyone else, the whole economy of Canada sells to the US some are just less directly linked than us. But this will affect every single Canadian, those of us outfitting will just see it sooner and more abruptly, but we’re all in for the same ride.
 
Ardent said:
To dispel some common misconceptions, the reason for the prices is the money the system we live and work in requires it. In BC you have to own your outfitting territory, and the costs run into the millions for top ground. So hence the price of stone sheep hunts.

In my outfitting operation I’m personally invested for most of a million with gear and equipment, making payments on that we can’t unfortunately sell our finite tags (quota) for a couple thousand bucks. Or we’d be paying up to five figures per hunter, here at least, to send folks out hunting.

As for us in this economic storm, we’re no worse off than anyone else, the whole economy of Canada sells to the US some are just less directly linked than us. But this will affect every single Canadian, those of us outfitting will just see it sooner and more abruptly, but we’re all in for the same ride.
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I read on outdoorsmen forum you sold out to the anti's as they made you an offer you couldn't refuse... that true?
 
frabill said:
I read on outdoorsmen forum you sold out to the anti's as they made you an offer you couldn't refuse... that true?
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Classy way to put it buddy. I’ll explain it, and how you take it will let me know a lot about you and I enter this conversation with an open mind. I’m the mid thirties father of three owner of Wild Coast.

In 2017 the government closed our grizzly hunt in one move which was half my family business. The compensation offered amounted to less than one single Grizzly hunt.

In 2018 our other quotas were reduced without consultation, which we now relied on to move forward. This also needless to say hits the value of the territory, hard.

Our family home is mortgaged to the maximum allowable to own and run my operation.

We received an offer from Raincoast, which owns most of the territories in our region we’re by no means close to the first in this situation, that keeps hunting open for residents of BC but would close us to non-resident hunting. I’ll remain open for fishing guiding and the like which is an ever growing proportion of the business anyhow, and far more sustainable rule wise.

Weighing the possibility of losing our home with continued downward quota reductions or closures we have no say in, and the area still being open to residents we decided to accept. Had we not one of our other neighbours would have received the deal. With current events there’s a very good chance it won’t sell now, and that’s alright will be a wild ride with current events and unknown future quota moves.

For me personally I can’t put our family home all on red with the government moves on the principle of non-resident hunting in BC. At this point in life we’re better to transition out big game hunting with non-residents and hunt with my kids and friends, and guide more fishing and tours as no territory ownership and a fraction of the financial risk and investment is required.

If you’d put your house and family on the line, I can’t fault you, but I can assure you the considerations are heavier than your one sentence inquiry makes them seem. And in the end, likely will still be going, just not in 2020 due to Covid-19, as I doubt fundraising for the purchase will go well in the current economic climate. We all have bigger concerns in 2020.
 
Ardent said:
Classy way to put it buddy. I’ll explain it, and how you take it will let me know a lot about you and I enter this conversation with an open mind. I’m the mid thirties father of three owner of Wild Coast.

In 2017 the government closed our grizzly hunt in one move which was half my family business. The compensation offered amounted to less than one single Grizzly hunt.

In 2018 our other quotas were reduced without consultation, which we now relied on to move forward. This also needless to say hits the value of the territory, hard.

Our family home is mortgaged to the maximum allowable to own and run my operation.

We received an offer from Raincoast, which owns most of the territories in our region we’re by no means close to the first in this situation, that keeps hunting open for residents of BC but would close us to non-resident hunting. I’ll remain open for fishing guiding and the like which is an ever growing proportion of the business anyhow, and far more sustainable rule wise.

Weighing the possibility of losing our home with continued downward quota reductions or closures we have no say in, and the area still being open to residents we decided to accept. Had we not one of our other neighbours would have received the deal. With current events there’s a very good chance it won’t sell now, and that’s alright will be a wild ride with current events and unknown future quota moves.

For me personally I can’t put our family home all on red with the government moves on the principle of non-resident hunting in BC. At this point in life we’re better to transition out big game hunting with non-residents and hunt with my kids and friends, and guide more fishing and tours as no territory ownership and a fraction of the financial risk and investment is required.

If you’d put your house and family on the line, I can’t fault you, but I can assure you the considerations are heavier than your one sentence inquiry makes them seem. And in the end, likely will still be going, just not in 2020 due to Covid-19, as I doubt fundraising for the purchase will go well in the current economic climate. We all have bigger concerns in 2020.
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I am always surprised that people get into the GO business as there is always lots of uncertainty and one govt Ministry or another will ultimately cause grief and the owner generally end up subsidizing the operation. Money talks and bullsh#t walks, but you seem to imply several times that your deal somehow "allows" residents continue to use the area. When this isn't part of a tenure.
 
Ardent said:
Classy way to put it buddy. I’ll explain it, and how you take it will let me know a lot about you and I enter this conversation with an open mind. I’m the mid thirties father of three owner of Wild Coast.

In 2017 the government closed our grizzly hunt in one move which was half my family business. The compensation offered amounted to less than one single Grizzly hunt.

In 2018 our other quotas were reduced without consultation, which we now relied on to move forward. This also needless to say hits the value of the territory, hard.

Our family home is mortgaged to the maximum allowable to own and run my operation.

We received an offer from Raincoast, which owns most of the territories in our region we’re by no means close to the first in this situation, that keeps hunting open for residents of BC but would close us to non-resident hunting. I’ll remain open for fishing guiding and the like which is an ever growing proportion of the business anyhow, and far more sustainable rule wise.

Weighing the possibility of losing our home with continued downward quota reductions or closures we have no say in, and the area still being open to residents we decided to accept. Had we not one of our other neighbours would have received the deal. With current events there’s a very good chance it won’t sell now, and that’s alright will be a wild ride with current events and unknown future quota moves.

For me personally I can’t put our family home all on red with the government moves on the principle of non-resident hunting in BC. At this point in life we’re better to transition out big game hunting with non-residents and hunt with my kids and friends, and guide more fishing and tours as no territory ownership and a fraction of the financial risk and investment is required.

If you’d put your house and family on the line, I can’t fault you, but I can assure you the considerations are heavier than your one sentence inquiry makes them seem. And in the end, likely will still be going, just not in 2020 due to Covid-19, as I doubt fundraising for the purchase will go well in the current economic climate. We all have bigger concerns in 2020.
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There are always, jackazzes around willing to judge others without any knowledge of what is at stake. I was in the same situation 20 years ago when they closed the spring bear season here... when you are on the cusp of losing everything, amazing clarity is the result. I suspect in your case with the grizzly closure and reduced tags, the buyers were not lining up at your door... hope that all works out well for you, Ardent. Stay safe out there.
 
Based on that link provided. I'm going to say that sucks but a man can't be expected to lose his livelihood, home and potentially family over it. And before whataboutism strikes, you could have bought it too, likely. Seems like he made a business decision to stay afloat, which most of us would do if backed into that corner. I dont have a horse in this particular race beyond being a "hunting community supporting non hunter" but it is what it is. He had to make a tough call and he did. What would you have done?
 
frabill said:
I read on outdoorsmen forum you sold out to the anti's as they made you an offer you couldn't refuse... that true?
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Each one of us has real financial obligations and if you read Ardent's post elaborating his position it's pretty hard to see another path for him. If you would risk your family's future on the role of a dice dealing with a provincial government that has already clearly signaled its intentions, great. The vast majority of us here (including myself) would not.

As an aside, Ardent was a huge help to me when I was putting together my mountain goat hunt in Northern British Columbia last year. Even though I was going with a resident friend through the "permit to accompany" program and he wasn't going to make a dime off me, he was extremely generous with his time and expertise.

The sooner the greater hunting community realizes that small differences between us (archery/rifle, self guided/outfitted, etc.) are literally "small potatoes" when confronted with the enormous issues of anti-hunting groups, emotionally-driven government wildlife management policies, public land access, etc. the better. The infighting will ultimately destroy us.
 
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