WK180c Findings and testing

CeeJay

CeeJay

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Oshawa, Canada
Hi Everybody!

(I did rename this thread)

I have been hemming and hawing about finding a new .223 rifle to replace the old SP1, and since I dont have a spare 4-5 grand for an ACR or a B&T. I decided to look into the WK180c. I did a bunch of youtubing and reading this's and that's on various places and initially I was kinda thrown off the idea on getting one. But the more recent reviews stated that some of the worst issues have been resolved. So I decided to take a chance.

I purchased the standard non magpul version of the rifle as I liked the look of the basic buttstock more. It came with 1 magpul plastic pmag. It also has (from what I have read) a heavier and thicker barrel than the originals. I also grabbed a magpul AFG grip, and seeing as I have never had a red dot sight before I grabbed a Bushnell TRS-25.



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Thus far I have put 100 rounds down the pipe and have had no issues other than what I believe is a mag issue, and I will come back to that. The rifle has the newer threaded charging handled and sure enough it stayed in place and did not fly off or mangle up the receiver, so I will count that as a plus. The rails inside also still look in good shape and not chewed up and the bolt appears in good shape too, now yes that's only the first 100 rounds but so far I am digging this rifle.

So as far as the mags go, I still have a bunch of the old colt 20 round aluminum mags, and I must say the look pretty sweet sitting inside the rifle, but for what ever reason they would not feed the last round. I had to push up on the mag and rack the bolt again to get it to feed. I cant really explain that as it had no other issues with the first 4 rounds. Those mags always worked well in the SP1 so I'm stuck as to why this is happening, perhaps just weaken springs. The Pmag worked perfectly and fed all 5 arounds without issue, so I have picked up a few more of those. I also have newer non colt 20 round mags and will also be trying those to see if they work.



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The bushnell red dot worked great! took about 5 shots to get it centered and that was that all good after and a nice clear lens to look through, I may look into one of those 3x magnifiers too. I don't think I'm gonna put a scope on this ,but I definitely wanted to put some Iron sights on it.

I ordered a pair of sights front and rear off amazon for 30 bucks...I know I know...but it had a 4.7 out of 5 star rating lol. So I put those on and they looked slightly off, not quite lining up right. So I ended up grabbing a pair of magpul ones. The magpul rear sight is quite nice and went on smoothly, however the front sight barely fits.. well no it doesn't fit over the front rail, I would have to smack it on there with a plastic hammer probably. Upon closer inspection the front section of the rail on the handguard is not the same as the rear section. The front section is definitely thicker, has anyone else ran into this?? if so was another handguard/rail a good fix? I tried to take a pic of the difference between the rails but it just doesn't come out well, put here is a pic of the front sight.


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I have ordered a few "upgrade" parts like a new front pin and the rubber O ring so the upper and lower fit better snugly. That being said does anyone know if I can throw on an A2 Buttstock (If I can find one) if I can find one? is it an easy install or is it really not worth it.

Any other tips or tricks or good parts upgrades are more than welcome, as are any questions comments or concerns.
 
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It’s Hemming.. lol

Nice rifle.
I’ve got one on the way to,sorta as it has an Spectre Lower.
I’ve got a spare HG as well, I’ll let you know if there’s any differences in the tolerances.
 
Some advice from someone who has put 16,000 rounds through 2x WK180C platforms

  • Red loctite your gas block screws (they're on the bottom) in really tight
  • Screw your gas screw (front of gas block) in really tight) then don't bother taking it apart for cleaning till at least 5000 rounds have been fired unless you're firing some absolute firtbag ammo (like a lot worse than barnaul)
  • Get your castle nut staked when you are happy with your stock
  • Change the trigger
  • Replace the handguard to one where the hex screws are easily removeable, the 8x screw handguard system sucks because the screws always get ruined pretty quickly
  • Get the bolt release catch and install it
  • Red or blue loctite your cocking hand in place and torque the hell out of it
 
Mag testing update.

Ok so today I put another 140 rounds through the rifle and still, the only issues have been with the mags and once again the 5/20 round mags are the culprits . I also grabbed 2 more 5/30 pmags and those once again run without issue.

So after the strangeness with the colt 5/20 mags, I dug out a bunch of the no name brand 5/20 mags. I cant remember where the heck I got these ones, but they might be Norinco as they have no markings what so ever. They are aluminum with aluminum followers. Once again these mags worked fine in the SP1 but not well in this rifle. Out of the 8 I had only 1 worked well and without issue, 2 of them did the same as the colt mags, and the rest didn't even catch the mag catch inside the rifle and went almost all the way in. Quite strange looking and when you pull them back down they do catch but with either not feed or feed 4 out of 5 rounds.


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I also had 2 ASC 5/20 round mags, these too are aluminum but with orange plastic followers, 1 of the mags worked flawlessly the other cause a double feed right off the bat. Upon examining the the 2 mags side by side it looks to me the maybe the spring is backwards inside? as it holds the rounds at a higher angle. I would like to try a 5/20 round pmag and see how it goes.



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So after those 140 rounds, once again the charging handle did stay in place but was loose, so as recommended by " Bratwurst " once I get it all cleaned out I will be putting in some lock tight, also the gas screw was loose so I will be and do a better job of tightening it back in. I haven't checked the the gas block screws or the hand guard yet, but that will be coming soon. The rails inside the receiver still looks good nothing chewed up yet and the bolt is still in good shape.

As far as lubrication goes I lubed it much the same as I did the SP1 or any other AR style of rifle, So basically just regular oil or a CLP on the bolt and such, however I decided to take a page out of the book of the Almighty M14 and also ended up using some grease specifically on the upper and lower rails where the charging handle/bolt lug rides much the same as you would put on the op rod tracks/rails on an M1 and m14. Now its not a huge globing of grease just a very light coat, It's an area that will see wear so might as well make it a slightly smoother ride. And I am happy to say it seems to work just fine, nothing has gobbed up in the receiver or into the bolt. I used the same type of lubriplate grease that I use on my M1, but I imagine any type of basic lithium grease should be fine.

Got a bit of a better chance to work with the red dot and get it more or less centered at 50 yards, started out low and right and eventually got to the bullseye, this is by no means an test of accuracy but as it sits its not too shabby at all. The ammo used was PPU 55 grain soft points.

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More info will be coming along the way, as I add new parts and make changes. I will try to update this thread as often as I can in hope it helps out others.
 
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The anti tilt followers made by Magpul for USGI metal mags will probably fix most of the feed issues. They are about 3/$10 at most places. A version of it (specific to Magpul P mags is what is in the Magpul mags and is why they seem more reliable. I found the same thing happened to me when using my USGI mags in my WK180c. As for over insertion of USGI mags. It is just a matter of using them on the range for plinking. They are not reliable in this regard for competition shooting under time pressure such as IPSC or 3 gun.

Cheers
Moe
 
Thank you Moe!!! That is great info! And I will look into getting a bunch of those soon!





Moe said:
The anti tilt followers made by Magpul for USGI metal mags will probably fix most of the feed issues. They are about 3/$10 at most places. A version of it (specific to Magpul P mags is what is in the Magpul mags and is why they seem more reliable. I found the same thing happened to me when using my USGI mags in my WK180c. As for over insertion of USGI mags. It is just a matter of using them on the range for plinking. They are not reliable in this regard for competition shooting under time pressure such as IPSC or 3 gun.

Cheers
Moe
Click to expand...
 
Update #3.

Hello Folks,

So I was able to put about another 120 rounds through today and since I'm not using anything other than Pmags I had no issues. I did put thread locker on the charging handle and it didn't come loose, so that's some good news isn't it. The grease on the bolt lug/rail has worked nicely, its not gobbed on or anything like that so its not throwing the stuff around. No gouges or horrible wear on the bolt or the inside of the receiver so that's another plus. I also took another stab with the front sight and just tapped it a bit with a screw driver handle and it went on without issue and also now comes off just by sliding it off so that's plus 3 on the day. I also added a Bushnell 3x Magnifier that can be flipped to one side when not needed, and I'll tell ya folks...I really like this set up, it works great and looks snazzy too! So in total that's a big plus 4!


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Okay now for some unfortunate news. When I got home and was taking things out, I noticed a bit of a wobble, at first I thought my hand guard had come loose, and well yes about 6 out of 8 screws were loose. I tightened them up and there is still a wobble, so I took the screws out and slid the handguard off and the barrel nut is loose, loose enough I can move it with ease with my hand! ( See pic below ) This is definitely not a plus!!

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So my question to those in the know, is how tight is this supposed to be? Is there a torque setting that I can check is it inch lbs or foot lbs? is it recommended that I use thread locker on that as well? and has this been found on anyone else's rifle?.

Since I had my handguard off I did check the screws on the gas block and 1 was loose, so as per recommendation I will thread lock those as well.
 
Definitely do not use thread lock on the barrel nut. In fact it probably should have grease on the threads. Torq for an AR15 barrel nut is 30 to 80 foot pounds. I would contact Kodiak about this and get the torque they use before doing this. Wouldn't be surprised if they want you to ship them the rifle for them to do it. the job is easy enough if you have the correct tools. Bottom line DO NOT SHOOT THAT RIFLE WITH THAT NUT LOOSE. It could cost you dearly in money and flesh.

Cheers.
Moe
 
So, a gun that mags won't reliably feed in, jams occasionally and is now disassembling itself? No thanks. How many rounds have you got in the rifle OP?
 
Update.

I took the rifle back to where I purchased it, and they are going to get a hold of Kodiak and send the rifle back. Unfortunately I don't know how long this will take.. and it sucks cause despite the mag issues, I was really liking the rifle and with the red dot and magnifier it was getting better and better.. I will update once I get the rifle back
 
Thanks for the details here.

When you mentioned the wobble, where was it coming from? Was it a rattle? Presumably when you saw the handguard screws were loose, was the handguard rattling around? When you tightened those screws and mentioned it still wobbles, what do you mean?

My WK has some rattles, but I have never bothered trying to isolate from where the sounds were coming, since the gun has always worked. Now that I have read your post I am going to take a closer look at it.
 
Interesting read. I just got one of these. So far totally not impressed with the amount of movement on the front pin when hinged open and when closed the amount of movement between the upper and lower is embarrassing. I have not shot it yet only taken apart inspected and installed one of my spare good triggers. Thanks Bratwurst for the tips on where the Loctite goes. I keep hearing people talk about O-rings to tighten things up. This seems like a poor solution. I'm left wondering why there isn't a hex head screw with a counter sunk head under the pistol grip that would thread right into the rear lug on the upper. For those that have these you look down in behind the trigger and you can see a small threaded hole there that isn't used. Likely for some part of the machining process. If that was a through hole and the upper was threaded the play would be gonzo. Something like this seems like a more robust solution than jamming a rubber O-ring in there to take up the slop. Is the replacement front pin slightly larger diameter? Once again seems like some pretty sloppy machining tolerances to me. My $600 AR not made in Canada has zero movement when the pins are in place and ready for some fun. Too bad its a safe queen now and slowly being stripped of all the aftermarket goodies and being put back into stock form. The only good part is now I have a place to put those parts and a new platform to work on. Being a guy that likes accurate bolt guns this movement seems way off to me.
 
^
The MCR added an extra take-down pin on the back of the lower/upper above the buffer tube socket to prevent play between the two parts. This was to prevent the "slop" that exists between the WK upper and lower.
 
thegazelle said:
Thanks for the details here.

When you mentioned the wobble, where was it coming from? Was it a rattle? Presumably when you saw the handguard screws were loose, was the handguard rattling around? When you tightened those screws and mentioned it still wobbles, what do you mean?

My WK has some rattles, but I have never bothered trying to isolate from where the sounds were coming, since the gun has always worked. Now that I have read your post I am going to take a closer look at it.
Click to expand...

There was always a bit of up and down wobble between the upper and lower, more or less the same that's on my Colt SP1. There is a rubber O ring you can get to stick around the fin of the upper so its much tighter when its closed, you can also replace the front pin to make it extra tight. I ordered these parts from TNA, but didnt get a chance to try them as the rifle is gone now.

The wobble I had on the handguard was more a tilt wobble, than an up and down wobble, no real rattling to speak of. I could turn the handguard a few degrees slightly from side to side or clockwise/counter clockwise. This was not there when I bought the rifle only appeared or noticed after my last outing. So my first thought was to check the handguard screws and yes the bulk of them were loose. However even after tightening them I could still move the handguard the same way, thats when I decided to remove it and check the barrel nut. The hand guard is screwed into the barrel nut and nothing else, so if the barrel nut is loose then the handguard is technically loose too.
 
ERICK TUIN said:
Interesting read. I just got one of these. So far totally not impressed with the amount of movement on the front pin when hinged open and when closed the amount of movement between the upper and lower is embarrassing. I have not shot it yet only taken apart inspected and installed one of my spare good triggers. Thanks Bratwurst for the tips on where the Loctite goes. I keep hearing people talk about O-rings to tighten things up. This seems like a poor solution. I'm left wondering why there isn't a hex head screw with a counter sunk head under the pistol grip that would thread right into the rear lug on the upper. For those that have these you look down in behind the trigger and you can see a small threaded hole there that isn't used. Likely for some part of the machining process. If that was a through hole and the upper was threaded the play would be gonzo. Something like this seems like a more robust solution than jamming a rubber O-ring in there to take up the slop. Is the replacement front pin slightly larger diameter? Once again seems like some pretty sloppy machining tolerances to me. My $600 AR not made in Canada has zero movement when the pins are in place and ready for some fun. Too bad its a safe queen now and slowly being stripped of all the aftermarket goodies and being put back into stock form. The only good part is now I have a place to put those parts and a new platform to work on. Being a guy that likes accurate bolt guns this movement seems way off to me.
Click to expand...

The front pin can be replaced with a different kind that will supposedly remove that slop, and the O ring that can be installed on the fin of the upper to snug that up too might be a good temp fix, who knows how long it will last. I ordered the parts from TNA, but never got the chance to install them so I can't say one way or another if they work.
 
Ustauk said:
^
The MCR added an extra take-down pin on the back of the lower/upper above the buffer tube socket to prevent play between the two parts. This was to prevent the "slop" that exists between the WK upper and lower.
Click to expand...

I would be nice to be able to retrofit the WK to have that second pin
 
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