Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Took a chance on a second hand new WK180c off the EE.
I'll try and keep this brief and to the point.
The rifle is well built for what it is. It's well machined and it's solid. Doesn't feel flimsy or cheap.
Pros:
- Light weight
- Simple design. Very few parts.
- Affordable
- Decently accurate for anyone who shoots to hit things not measuring holes with calipers.
- Ambi charging handle selection.
- AR15 compatible barrel, trigger assy (aside from safety selector), pistol grips (any CAN fit with modification)
- Lighter weight profile barrel instead of a massive heavy barrel that does nothing to make it any more accurate (thank Christ they got this concept right...)
Cons:
- AR15 factory stock supplied with rifle (personal preference thing, I HATE collapsing stocks. Give me a fixed or side folder any day)
- A2 AR15 pistol grip is at a very wonky angle to the geometry of the receiver and the trigger. I know they were trying to save costs at every corner and I applaud them but it's just an observation. Get an MOE Slim and a dremel and fix the problem!
- Quality Control: my chamber was WAY too tight. Hard time chambering and rough extraction as evidenced by bolt not closing once case was 2/3 into the chamber, required physical force. If case was extracted without firing, the hard marring on the base of the case was evidence of excessively tight chamber.
Badly assembled/machined barrel extension to inner receiver fit. Created a "Non M4 style barrel in an M4 upper receiver" problem (google it) Projos jamming up on the edge of the feed ramp.
Warranty fixed the chamber by reaming it and they machined the feed ramps back to sit flush with the receiver. Rifle would still NOT cycle and feed with any STANAG mags including attempts with LAR15 mags, Colt 5/20 Pinned, Norinco 5/30, NATO surplus 5/30. I have zero doubt now that there is too much slop in the machining of the magwell on this rifle causing the front of the mags to "dive" down as the bolt attempts to feed a round. Plastic HERA and MFT 10 rounders now work flawlessly though.....I'm on the fence as to whether this is good enough for me but I digress.
- Factory trigger is one of the worst I've ever used and I'm no fancy equipment snob by any means. I swapped it for a cheap S and W assembly and it's night and difference for the better. The hammer spring was about 3 times as stiff as any of my AR15's. Probably was not aiding in allowing the bolt to travel freely rearward in the receiver either with the excessive pressure required to #### it back.
Anyhow, it handles like a dream. Points easy, controls are excellent.
The rifle is stock aside from the trigger assembly, the MOE Slim grip I modified to fit it and the MOE fixed carbine stock to replace the M4 it came with. Sights are standard Magpul MBUS flip ups. I chose the MOE fixed carbine specifically because it's stumpy and short. The big adapter they put on the ass end to make it fit an AR15 buffer tube puts any other stock LOP stretched WAY out.
The targets were my 18" AR500 steel gong and excellent upside down triangle for consistent POA shooting irons. Ammo is 62gr Federal XM855 bulk.
Temperature was a frigid -23 C with the wind today!
Here is the first 10 shot group just shooting prone in the snow off my Makita range bag. Gong and target at 100 meters known distance.
I shot 3 more 10 round groups. My eyes get tired. They were all about the same. The first was the best but only by a flyer here or there.
Here's a video of 10 rounds standing shooting the 18" gong at 100 meters:
[youtube]6j4ZHRTtgfk[/youtube]
9 out of 10 isn't bad!
So it can shoot. It's more accurate than any rack grade AR15 I've ever shot and even some "top shelf" ones that cost 2 to 2.5 times the price of this gun.
That being said the quality control issues still gnaw at me with the literal no go on STANAG mags still even after warranty work...
I'm also not a fan of unreliable guns.
So I decided to test out something that a lot of people were griping about early on. Primarily the receiver being too open to dirt, snow etc getting in and jamming the rifle up.
Say you were out in the bush and dropped her in the snow accidental and....kicked it around a bit too for the f**k of it lol:
[youtube]25E596PXZrs[/youtube]
So what I can tell anyone interested in the reliability aspect of the rifle is this; don't drop it in the snow. And if you do for whatever reason make sure you take it apart and clean out the trigger assy.
The rifle did fire and cycle even with snow up in every orifice HOWEVER the stoppages it did have were not from cycling. The snow getting into the receiver easily finds its way into the tight trigger group pocket and will block up the hammer sear and disconnect creating a potentially very dangerous barely caught hammer that could slip easily with the slightest bump after attempting to pull the trigger.
The armchair commando's were surprisingly correct on this one! Being right handed I'd be all for closing the right side of the receiver aside from the ejection port and having a simple flip cover to seal the action for carry etc and just have it set left side charging handle......That being said; I would not put my life in the trust of the WK180c if I had to crawl prone through sand dunes or arctic tundra to assault beer cans on a fence post...that's what the SKS is for Comrade!
Just don't drop the fun gun in the snow and kick it around and you should be good to go!
Just for fun, I cleared the trigger assy of snow and ice and dropped it again then fired 10 rounds standing at the 18" plate at 100 meters:
[youtube]h-3XSC3wOMo[/youtube]
No stoppages this time at all but I did not kick it around after I dropped it into the deep snow. Just dropped and picked up.
Accuracy 5 out of 5: It's a lowest quality possible material and parts semi auto piston gun and it shoots as good as most $2K AR15's any day all day. I'm going to file the front post thinner on my front iron and tighten up the POA even more.
Ergonomics 3 out of 5: The wonky angle of the A2 pistol grip has to be addressed and the collapsing stock is junk, swap it for any MOE plastic piece of overpriced s**t and grind it to fit and it will fix it very well, huge improvement. I think they need to ditch the big chunky adapter on the ass just to make it fit AR15 parts and design a simple, cheap and reliable side folding fixed stock. Left/right hand charging handle is brilliant! (as long as you aren't taking it with you on winter warfare) Ambi safety selector from factory.
Reliability 2 out of 5: This may be unfair as I have only intimately held and used this one example but the over tight chamber, terrible feed ramp to receiver assembly design and the fact that I still can't run STANAG metal mags period even AFTER the warranty work, is still eating at me hard.
Price 4 out 5: Aside from the issues with my individual rifle, if there are people out there with theirs that are running STANAG metal mags as well as mine runs plastic Hera/MFT ones then just over $1K for this rifle still makes it the best NR black rifle going in the country right now IMHO.
Can anyone out there with one let me know how theirs is doing with any FMJ projectile ammo and STANAG metal mags please? Am I the only one experiencing this issue? Mags dive forward and projectile tip jams into middle of feed ramp, the bolt pushing from the rear, the tip on the ramp and the mag tilting forward frozen up like this. Even forcing the bolt by hand won't feed it.
I'll try and keep this brief and to the point.
The rifle is well built for what it is. It's well machined and it's solid. Doesn't feel flimsy or cheap.
Pros:
- Light weight
- Simple design. Very few parts.
- Affordable
- Decently accurate for anyone who shoots to hit things not measuring holes with calipers.
- Ambi charging handle selection.
- AR15 compatible barrel, trigger assy (aside from safety selector), pistol grips (any CAN fit with modification)
- Lighter weight profile barrel instead of a massive heavy barrel that does nothing to make it any more accurate (thank Christ they got this concept right...)
Cons:
- AR15 factory stock supplied with rifle (personal preference thing, I HATE collapsing stocks. Give me a fixed or side folder any day)
- A2 AR15 pistol grip is at a very wonky angle to the geometry of the receiver and the trigger. I know they were trying to save costs at every corner and I applaud them but it's just an observation. Get an MOE Slim and a dremel and fix the problem!
- Quality Control: my chamber was WAY too tight. Hard time chambering and rough extraction as evidenced by bolt not closing once case was 2/3 into the chamber, required physical force. If case was extracted without firing, the hard marring on the base of the case was evidence of excessively tight chamber.
Badly assembled/machined barrel extension to inner receiver fit. Created a "Non M4 style barrel in an M4 upper receiver" problem (google it) Projos jamming up on the edge of the feed ramp.
Warranty fixed the chamber by reaming it and they machined the feed ramps back to sit flush with the receiver. Rifle would still NOT cycle and feed with any STANAG mags including attempts with LAR15 mags, Colt 5/20 Pinned, Norinco 5/30, NATO surplus 5/30. I have zero doubt now that there is too much slop in the machining of the magwell on this rifle causing the front of the mags to "dive" down as the bolt attempts to feed a round. Plastic HERA and MFT 10 rounders now work flawlessly though.....I'm on the fence as to whether this is good enough for me but I digress.
- Factory trigger is one of the worst I've ever used and I'm no fancy equipment snob by any means. I swapped it for a cheap S and W assembly and it's night and difference for the better. The hammer spring was about 3 times as stiff as any of my AR15's. Probably was not aiding in allowing the bolt to travel freely rearward in the receiver either with the excessive pressure required to #### it back.
Anyhow, it handles like a dream. Points easy, controls are excellent.
The rifle is stock aside from the trigger assembly, the MOE Slim grip I modified to fit it and the MOE fixed carbine stock to replace the M4 it came with. Sights are standard Magpul MBUS flip ups. I chose the MOE fixed carbine specifically because it's stumpy and short. The big adapter they put on the ass end to make it fit an AR15 buffer tube puts any other stock LOP stretched WAY out.
The targets were my 18" AR500 steel gong and excellent upside down triangle for consistent POA shooting irons. Ammo is 62gr Federal XM855 bulk.
Temperature was a frigid -23 C with the wind today!
Here is the first 10 shot group just shooting prone in the snow off my Makita range bag. Gong and target at 100 meters known distance.
I shot 3 more 10 round groups. My eyes get tired. They were all about the same. The first was the best but only by a flyer here or there.
Here's a video of 10 rounds standing shooting the 18" gong at 100 meters:
[youtube]6j4ZHRTtgfk[/youtube]
9 out of 10 isn't bad!
So it can shoot. It's more accurate than any rack grade AR15 I've ever shot and even some "top shelf" ones that cost 2 to 2.5 times the price of this gun.
That being said the quality control issues still gnaw at me with the literal no go on STANAG mags still even after warranty work...
I'm also not a fan of unreliable guns.
So I decided to test out something that a lot of people were griping about early on. Primarily the receiver being too open to dirt, snow etc getting in and jamming the rifle up.
Say you were out in the bush and dropped her in the snow accidental and....kicked it around a bit too for the f**k of it lol:
[youtube]25E596PXZrs[/youtube]
So what I can tell anyone interested in the reliability aspect of the rifle is this; don't drop it in the snow. And if you do for whatever reason make sure you take it apart and clean out the trigger assy.
The rifle did fire and cycle even with snow up in every orifice HOWEVER the stoppages it did have were not from cycling. The snow getting into the receiver easily finds its way into the tight trigger group pocket and will block up the hammer sear and disconnect creating a potentially very dangerous barely caught hammer that could slip easily with the slightest bump after attempting to pull the trigger.
The armchair commando's were surprisingly correct on this one! Being right handed I'd be all for closing the right side of the receiver aside from the ejection port and having a simple flip cover to seal the action for carry etc and just have it set left side charging handle......That being said; I would not put my life in the trust of the WK180c if I had to crawl prone through sand dunes or arctic tundra to assault beer cans on a fence post...that's what the SKS is for Comrade!
Just don't drop the fun gun in the snow and kick it around and you should be good to go!
Just for fun, I cleared the trigger assy of snow and ice and dropped it again then fired 10 rounds standing at the 18" plate at 100 meters:
[youtube]h-3XSC3wOMo[/youtube]
No stoppages this time at all but I did not kick it around after I dropped it into the deep snow. Just dropped and picked up.
Accuracy 5 out of 5: It's a lowest quality possible material and parts semi auto piston gun and it shoots as good as most $2K AR15's any day all day. I'm going to file the front post thinner on my front iron and tighten up the POA even more.
Ergonomics 3 out of 5: The wonky angle of the A2 pistol grip has to be addressed and the collapsing stock is junk, swap it for any MOE plastic piece of overpriced s**t and grind it to fit and it will fix it very well, huge improvement. I think they need to ditch the big chunky adapter on the ass just to make it fit AR15 parts and design a simple, cheap and reliable side folding fixed stock. Left/right hand charging handle is brilliant! (as long as you aren't taking it with you on winter warfare) Ambi safety selector from factory.
Reliability 2 out of 5: This may be unfair as I have only intimately held and used this one example but the over tight chamber, terrible feed ramp to receiver assembly design and the fact that I still can't run STANAG metal mags period even AFTER the warranty work, is still eating at me hard.
Price 4 out 5: Aside from the issues with my individual rifle, if there are people out there with theirs that are running STANAG metal mags as well as mine runs plastic Hera/MFT ones then just over $1K for this rifle still makes it the best NR black rifle going in the country right now IMHO.
Can anyone out there with one let me know how theirs is doing with any FMJ projectile ammo and STANAG metal mags please? Am I the only one experiencing this issue? Mags dive forward and projectile tip jams into middle of feed ramp, the bolt pushing from the rear, the tip on the ramp and the mag tilting forward frozen up like this. Even forcing the bolt by hand won't feed it.
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