WK180C vs Crusader vs HK vs Tavor

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Cmaiden39

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Hi All,

Im in the market for a semi-auto rifle these days, which would you recommend of the companies noted in the title?

WK - I constantly hear mixed reviews
Crusador - Same same, the new templar looks promising
H&K - Dont think i hear enough about this
Tavor - Owned one, loved it, but sold it for dogs surgery.

Curious for opinions before impulse buying a tavor again.

Already have an SKS and its fine!

Thanks all!
 
The Templar is superior to the WK from everything that I've seen. The only negative vs the WK is that the Templar is distinctly heavier. My Sentinel (very close equivalent) has been very competent, reliable and well built. I wouldn't say it's amazing but I think it will have a long life.

The Tavor, however, blows away the WK and the Templar in every way. IMO the only reason to purchase the other two vs the Tavor would be to support Canadian manufacturing or if you prefer a traditional rifle format.

And I've never tried an SL8.
 
Cmaiden39 said:
Hi All,

Im in the market for a semi-auto rifle these days, which would you recommend of the companies noted in the title?

WK - I constantly hear mixed reviews
Crusador - Same same, the new templar looks promising
H&K - Dont think i hear enough about this
Tavor - Owned one, loved it, but sold it for dogs surgery.

Curious for opinions before impulse buying a tavor again.

Already have an SKS and its fine!

Thanks all!
Click to expand...

I have used an X95 & SL8

From this list the X95 would be my choice - it is crazy reliable, not light but well balanced (a lot of the weight is at the rear being a bullpup) but is not known for its accuracy and the ergonomics need a little getting used to (really its only the magazine location & bolt release)

The SL8 is pretty reliable (mine had a Stanag mag adaptor which I think made it a little fussier), and very accurate (probably one of the most accurate off the shelf 223s out there). For downsides I found it pretty front heavy (which I dont like) and the trigger wasnt the best.

Cant speak to the other two.
 
Tavor is the most proven of the 4 in terms of durability. Forget the WK, buy a MCR instead.

Not enough user info out yet regarding the Crusader offering to make a reccomondation, it does look promising though.
 
X95 will be reliable but less accurate than the SL8. The SL8 will be reliable and more accurate. SL8 will be front heavy with traditional ergos while the X95 will be better balanced with a new manual of arms if you're used to traditional rifles.

For me, i'd likely opt for the SL8 but I shoot service rifle that goes out to 500m. I'd say it really comes down to what level of accuracy you want, really.
 
If you insist on a conventional layout in 5.56mm and NR, I believe that you would be best served by the HK G36 with a good quality LPVO as an all-round utility-type rifle. If that is beyond your price point at $6K (+) then my next choice would be the Sterling Arms R18 Mk2 at $2700-ish. After that would come the as yet untested CrusaderTemplar at $2200 with the TriggerTech Trigger installed.

I'd leave the $4-5K FAMAE SG 540 and the Bushmaster ACR alone as both are effectively out of production without spares and the FAMAE takes expensive, proprietary magazines. They are more collectors than shooters, much like the Robinson M96 Expeditionary Rifle.

I would avoid the 'econo" versions of the AR-180, as the WK-180 suffers from parts failures and the WS-MCR has plenty of sharp corners and edges to go along with its fugly looks and chunky weight. At this point you are likely much better off with the Templar, which appears to be a product improved WS-MCR in any case.

Just my $.02 as someone who had owned then all (excepting the WK-180 and Templar). Of course, YMMV....


Edited to Add: Forgot to mention the B+T APC223 NR version as a secondary option to the G36 at $4200-ish. They are insanely well-made rifles with excellent reliability and accuracy. If out of your price range, then I would still default to the R18 Mk2 - at least until such time as the NR Bren 2MS hits dealer shelves. The $3200 NR Bren 2 will immediately displace the R18 Mk2 and will give both the APC223 and the HK G36 a run for their money at a fraction of the cost. Nothing will compete with the Bren 2 in the $3K price-range. It is a superb modern sporting rifle in every conceivable regard and provides <2 MOA accuracy with standard 62gr ball ammo. Wait for it....
 
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also think about how much time you want to put into fine-tuning the rifle. my 180 was junk out of the box, but with time, refining, and lots of aftermarket it is now a smooth-shooting reliable firearm that doesn't feel like it is barely holding it together every time i pull the trigger.

the hk is ultra reliable out of the box but front-heavy and aesthetically compromised depending on your point of view. again, work (cut the barrel to 18.6) and aftermarket (g36k handguard, hera pistol grip adaptor) are your friend. more $ however. and not much to fix the trigger (although much better than the g36) except a tommybuilt flat trigger if you can find one.

so, you can come in cheap and spend slowly to improve, or put all your $ upfront.
 
the radium king said:
also think about how much time you want to put into fine-tuning the rifle. my 180 was junk out of the box, but with time, refining, and lots of aftermarket it is now a smooth-shooting reliable firearm that doesn't feel like it is barely holding it together every time i pull the trigger.

the hk is ultra reliable out of the box but front-heavy and aesthetically compromised depending on your point of view. again, work (cut the barrel to 18.6) and aftermarket (g36k handguard, hera pistol grip adaptor) are your friend. more $ however. and not much to fix the trigger (although much better than the g36) except a tommybuilt flat trigger if you can find one.

so, you can come in cheap and spend slowly to improve, or put all your $ upfront.
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This top line is so true. I met one of the owners from Kodiak when we did some work swapping out their ceiling fans and lights, really nice guys. I bought it as sort of a pay it forward kinda thing and it's a neat rifle the downsides after taking it out a few times were..

Constant ftf, if you didn't slam the bolt perfectly it wouldn't chamber a round and would sort of jam up, accuracy was questionable, and for the love of God take it apart and put some oil in the gas tube cylinder once in a while, or you're going to have to knock it out with a pin.

The Gen 2 upper is a big improvement, I also plan to install the bronze oil bushing instead of the cheap nylon when I get back from vacation. Probably use a 5/16 end mill in my bridgeport. The charging handle on the gen 1 was eating up the reciever, almost like it wasn't centered.
 
Unless you hate the bull pup configuration, I don't see any competition to the tavor. Battle proven, insanely reliable, nice and compact, and more than accurate for plinking targets. I have a beaten and battered tar 21, that's had thousands of rounds through it with zero cleaning and still functions flawlessly, that cannot be said for any of the other rifles.
 
The G36 is incredibly expensive with a rubbish trigger but among the most capable fighting rifles/carbines out there.

The Bren is basically a SCAR done better. If a NR option is available it would be my recommendation.

The X95 is fairly chunky but well balanced also with a rubbish trigger. If you prefer the bullpup aesthetic and/or ergonomics this is the one to have.

The SL8 seems to be mentioned here. While it is basically a G36 with a thiccccc barrel, and a thumbhole stock. This is more suited to bench shooting and to my experience is the most accurate production autoloader. But… it has the classic G36 ergonomic shortfalls and as mentioned by others is front heavy. And while I think they look hot the general consensus is they are ugly, you be the judge.

The rest mentioned, the wk180 had a bunch of issues so i steered clear have no experience with one but the number of bad reviews are concerning.

The templar is a bcl product if I’m not mistaken so it’s automatically out
 
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NOT sticking to the rifles you specified, my personal preferences, in order, based on rifles I've actually owned...

- HK G36
- Cz Bren2
- ACR
- X95 Tavor
- TAR21 Tavor
- Famae 540
- HK SL8 (GREAT rifle, just not my thing)
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- WK180C

No personal experience with the Crusader, Templar, or Sterling R18, but I suspect any of them would be better than the WK180. Though the WK180 GEN2 does look appear to have dealt with some of the shortcomings of the version I had...
 
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One note regarding the G36. For us lefties, the stock knuckle will hit you right in the teeth, which is super unsettling as I've never had to worry about having my teeth knocked out when shooting any other rifle.

I got my wife a 2nd gen WK180 and it has been fine so far. I find it a bit heavy but it has thus far been reliable and accurate enough. One benefit to the WK180 is that it will accept any AR15 trigger, including the high end target models. A good trigger is a thing to behold. A crap trigger is an endless frustration.

The Keltec RDB is also worth consideration as it is a lot cheaper than the Tavor and has a pretty decent trigger.
 
X95 > SL8 > Templar > WK

Keep in mind I have no first hand experience with the SL8 and Templar but the SL8 looks like a bench gun, certainly doesn't look like something you'd want to clear a house with.
 
I cannot believe the good quality of the WK gen 2 for such a low price. Shooters who are interested in a sporting and hunting rifle need to consider this firearm.
 
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