How many wolves and coyotes are you going to put in your high fenced zoo? Last I heard it was at 40 acres?........ Interested in your take and feedback.... Especially considering the range of a wolf pack.... Since you are a PHD equivalent, the equation should be easy...... Maybe 1.234737447 wolves?
Wolves: Kill 'Em All
- Thread starter Demonical
- Start date
How many wolves and coyotes are you going to put in your high fenced zoo? Last I heard it was at 40 acres?........ Interested in your take and feedback.... Especially considering the range of a wolf pack.... Since you are a PHD equivalent, the equation should be easy...... Maybe 1.234737447 wolves?
You won't like my idea superbrad but if anyone else has a better one please chime in now...
In areas where draw tags already exist I would sell at market prices all of the draw tags for big game animals like moose, elk, caribou etc to the highest bidders instead of making everyone wait in line to draw tags. All of the funds would go towards habitat acquisition and improvement and enforcement of anti poaching. The funds would also be used to fund damages caused by wolves and other predators...essentially buying their lives as well as feeding and inoculation and disease testing when neccessary.
Then, the predators would have draw opportunites based on 5-10% of the population for starters.
Once moose, elk, deer etc. populations are healthy enough to sustain more hunting, general tags will be opened in draw zones. All current open northern zones will remain open. This will be the most efficient way to boost populations...even quicker than killing the wolves or closing certain zones.
In areas where draw tags already exist I would sell at market prices all of the draw tags for big game animals like moose, elk, caribou etc to the highest bidders instead of making everyone wait in line to draw tags. All of the funds would go towards habitat acquisition and improvement and enforcement of anti poaching. The funds would also be used to fund damages caused by wolves and other predators...essentially buying their lives as well as feeding and inoculation and disease testing when neccessary.
Then, the predators would have draw opportunites based on 5-10% of the population for starters.
Once moose, elk, deer etc. populations are healthy enough to sustain more hunting, general tags will be opened in draw zones. All current open northern zones will remain open. This will be the most efficient way to boost populations...even quicker than killing the wolves or closing certain zones.
Sum how I can't see how you can eradicate wild wolfs and coyotes.
wolfs are dam hard to trap let alone hunt
I hope I never see privatize high fence hunting wear only overprivileged wealthy can afford
Call me old fashion I still think a man should be able to take his children out in the wild hunting and not be restricted to hunting behind a fence
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
So in your utopian hunting heaven, let me ask how you plan to handle treaty hunting rights? Step one (not 10) in having effective game management in some areas is convincing supreme court justices to rule against the treaties and the charter of rights and put everyone on a level playing field. That's not going to happen, so your plan has failed and there's no need to implement your european, rich man's game management ideals.
In natural wilderness environments, the wolves and prey animals strike a balance. It's a fair fight there.
But in large parts of Alberta (I won't assume other areas, just what I see here), resource development has created a grid-work of roads, that has provided too much access to game, for predators. The snowmobile trails network contributes, because these trails cover all the intersecting sections of roads together. All you have to do is look, to see how they travel these roads and snowmobile trails. But this not being a popular idea, many will immediately try to deny it.
The Swan Hills of Alberta used to have a huge moose population. I remember seeing where large expanses of willows, looked at if they had been trimmed by someone with hedge clippers. Because so many moose used to browse there.
Now you have to walk along a trail and look for signs of moose feeding.
I've argued about the cause of the moose collapse, with lots of people. I've observed it, having lived and worked and hunted in the area, since 1980.
The original population drops were caused by extreme winter weather, combined with ticks.
Several other factors have prevented the moose from rebounding.
1) Unregulated hunting of breeding females. Fact.
2) Predators. Wolves. Bears killing calves in springtime: studies have routinely come up with about 60% mortality rate of moose calves, by bears.
3) The recent stretch of extremely mild winters, combined with deep snow pack, has made for a heyday for predators (wolves and coyotes).
If you travel the oilfield road systems, in this area, what you will see is tracks of wolf packs, following the road networks and the snowmobile trails. The wolves will follow these roads and trails, for miles, expending minimal energy as they hunt for prey. I have often seen where they've traveled five miles, before finally leaving the road, to enter cutblocks or forest, where they've scented game.
This winter I went up the Chickadee Rd, west of Whitecourt. Wolves had killed a moose, right on the road.
As the moose herd has dropped, the wolves have concentrated on the deer herds.
Ask any hunter, who was up in this area, this past winter will tell you the same. The operators in our field, are saying the same thing; there's virtually no deer left in the Carson area.
So when I say, "Kill 'Em All", it's not based on ignorance, but on real world experience. What I see today, and what I've observed over the last 36 years.
In this area, since weather cannot be regulated and unregulated hunting by certain groups cannot be regulated, the only chance the ungulate herds have to recover, is full-scale reduction of predator numbers.
So I will shoot any wolf I see (in season).
But in large parts of Alberta (I won't assume other areas, just what I see here), resource development has created a grid-work of roads, that has provided too much access to game, for predators. The snowmobile trails network contributes, because these trails cover all the intersecting sections of roads together. All you have to do is look, to see how they travel these roads and snowmobile trails. But this not being a popular idea, many will immediately try to deny it.
The Swan Hills of Alberta used to have a huge moose population. I remember seeing where large expanses of willows, looked at if they had been trimmed by someone with hedge clippers. Because so many moose used to browse there.
Now you have to walk along a trail and look for signs of moose feeding.
I've argued about the cause of the moose collapse, with lots of people. I've observed it, having lived and worked and hunted in the area, since 1980.
The original population drops were caused by extreme winter weather, combined with ticks.
Several other factors have prevented the moose from rebounding.
1) Unregulated hunting of breeding females. Fact.
2) Predators. Wolves. Bears killing calves in springtime: studies have routinely come up with about 60% mortality rate of moose calves, by bears.
3) The recent stretch of extremely mild winters, combined with deep snow pack, has made for a heyday for predators (wolves and coyotes).
If you travel the oilfield road systems, in this area, what you will see is tracks of wolf packs, following the road networks and the snowmobile trails. The wolves will follow these roads and trails, for miles, expending minimal energy as they hunt for prey. I have often seen where they've traveled five miles, before finally leaving the road, to enter cutblocks or forest, where they've scented game.
This winter I went up the Chickadee Rd, west of Whitecourt. Wolves had killed a moose, right on the road.
As the moose herd has dropped, the wolves have concentrated on the deer herds.
Ask any hunter, who was up in this area, this past winter will tell you the same. The operators in our field, are saying the same thing; there's virtually no deer left in the Carson area.
So when I say, "Kill 'Em All", it's not based on ignorance, but on real world experience. What I see today, and what I've observed over the last 36 years.
In this area, since weather cannot be regulated and unregulated hunting by certain groups cannot be regulated, the only chance the ungulate herds have to recover, is full-scale reduction of predator numbers.
So I will shoot any wolf I see (in season).
I would be curious to see how high Fence Hunting would work in BC
ther is very little Settled treaties in BC
would you realy want us natives to start putting up high fence and charging people for exclusive right to hunt
In BC we already have to many fences that what is so wonderful about northern BC we get to go wear we want and most of the time we get along native and non native put up a fence thing would turn ugly fast
Sum thing are better to forget about and high fence is one of those thing
ther is very little Settled treaties in BC
would you realy want us natives to start putting up high fence and charging people for exclusive right to hunt
In BC we already have to many fences that what is so wonderful about northern BC we get to go wear we want and most of the time we get along native and non native put up a fence thing would turn ugly fast
Sum thing are better to forget about and high fence is one of those thing
It make sense to me on Haida Gwaii it's raccoon we shoot and trap as many as we can and haven't put a dint in ther numbers but we will continue doing are best to thin them out
A delightful notion my Lord! It has been a most regrettable shame that noblemen have been reduced to engaging in these silly draw processes amongst the proletariat!
There is currently no more expensive or inefficient model for game management than the current one practised in most of Canada's provinces. That is - sell more tags than there are animals to shoot (except in draw areas where you're odds of being drawn vary from one in 10 to one in 100), shoot for the most part any age class or either ### of the species (under a general license), and have unlimited hunting pressure in already overhunted and overpressured areas.
All the while allowing unfettered resource extraction and development in these areas while allowing corporations to reap monetray reward from exploiting these resources and at the same time not allowing any monetary inflow into conservation nor allow any incentives for those to conserve habitat or maintain or generate hunting opportunities through sustainable game management.
Seems to me few people responding on these forums care to reveal the truth about how we manage our wildlife...and even fewer are willing to make the neccessary monetary contributions and investment that will be neccessary for wildlife to survive and hunting to compete in a capitalist economy with all the other profitable uses of our resources.
All the while allowing unfettered resource extraction and development in these areas while allowing corporations to reap monetray reward from exploiting these resources and at the same time not allowing any monetary inflow into conservation nor allow any incentives for those to conserve habitat or maintain or generate hunting opportunities through sustainable game management.
Seems to me few people responding on these forums care to reveal the truth about how we manage our wildlife...and even fewer are willing to make the neccessary monetary contributions and investment that will be neccessary for wildlife to survive and hunting to compete in a capitalist economy with all the other profitable uses of our resources.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
What I want to know, is what are you going to do about BC's bat hunting season? We've been without one for longer than I can remember. I presume this issue is shooting at night, not a population concern.
Hmmm yes a very good question indeed! Haahhaaa
Well clearly bats are not birds but mammals...so this must fall under the furbearers regulations and be governed accordingly and be subject to fur royalties and "seasons" to ensure the primeness of the pelts.
In order to circumvent the inherent difficulty with hunting a nocturnal species, the use of bait is permitted but must be limited to insects. Bait must not exceed more than 2 kilograms of locusts and must not contain the head, hide or glands of the asian longhorn beetle and must not be placed within one half hour of dusk till dawn...
I am going to start selling exclusive salmon fishing for the rich
My idea is to charge $10,000 so you can catch a nice big salmon out of a fish farm
Thay will be pen up so it will be easy jk
HAAAHAAA
My idea is to charge $10,000 so you can catch a nice big salmon out of a fish farm
Thay will be pen up so it will be easy jk
HAAAHAAA
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None of this is unfamiliar or new. And, not unexpectedly, many hunters with "real world" experience attribute it to a wolf problem. Its not. Its a classic habitat/wildlife management problem. You (we) have fundamentally changed the landscape, and then seek to blame wolves for what happened next instead of taking responsibility for having caused it ourselves. Wolves are just doing what they have always done.
There will never be open season on bats in 40 acre fenced enclosures.... The problem being that, unlike upland game, when you clip their wings to make them stay put they cant move around much and then it just gets messy....
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
This.
You sound like you have some interesting ideas and I agree that the way hunting is regulated is not perfect. You have raised several important considerations in your posts. I do not have the answers to those difficult and valid questions.
My joke above was just a protest of any suggestion that we reduce access to hunting opportunities for "Everyman."
That would really be a sad day and the beginning of the end for many traditions as we know them.
