wood finish on refurb Nagant

desporterizer said:
Not to be difficult but when you say stand up to the weather do remember what these things were originally used for. BTW, I have not found the much vaunted urethane to be any tougher than shellac.
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I can't comment on straight urethane, but the shellac on my mosin scratched off simply by drawing a fingernail lightly across it. It could be that fresher (newer) shellac might be more durable, and that the age of the 60 yr old Soviet shellac is a factor in its being so easily removed.

In the case of my rifle, there were sections where the shellac was completely worn away. Even though its still drying, the final coat of the Tru-Oil I used is many times more durable already. Tru-Oil is a combination of linseed oil and poly I believe, sort of a 'middle of the road' approach between hand rubbed oil and straight poly finishes.
 
There is a difference between shellac and lacquer finishes though as well. Shellac is naturally flacky. So if historical accuracy is important, it might be good to determine what was used and stick to that. Could have been a mixture of both shellac and lacquer even.
 
Shellac is actually a decent but rather soft sort of finish. This combined with anywhere from a 60 to 80 year soak in cosmoline leaves me wondering why the orignal shellac is able to stick to the wood at all.

Apparently it doesn't... my second Mosin, a '39 Tula from that Westrifle place, saw the shellac flaking off simply from rubbing away the cosmoline with a rag wetted down with some mineral spirits to aid in soaking away the cosmo'. I gave up at that point and switched to some lacquer thinner to strip it all off and try to get as much as reasonable of the cosmoline out of the wood. I stained it lightly then began putting polymerized tung oil onto it. Two coats in it's looking OK but not great. The wood is particularly boring from a grain effect perspective. So all I can go for is a nice looking color.
 
Try using 50% amonia and water. it will clean the wood of oil,dirt and old finish. Leaves the marking intact. clean in hot water and let dry for a few days. Then add a finish.
 
desporterizer said:
Lacquer & shellac don't mix. As far as I know, no military has ever used lacquer as a stock finish. You can also shellac over a oil finish.
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Perhaps not on these firearms, but a technique using shellac as a base layer under lacquer is not unheard of.

The unavoidable fact is, poly is a more modern finish and has replaced shellac and lacquer for many aplications, and for good reasons. Now I realize that doesn't address the issue of trying to replicate an original finsh, because poly simply isn't an option if historical preservation is a person's goal. But synthetic has its advantages when it comes to practical applications.
 
Modern petrol based finishes are also a royal slut to get off when needed & they are difficult to repair once scratched. I spent 8hrs stripping a No5 of varnish that somebody applied 30yrs ago to "Improve " the look of the rifle.
 
desporterizer said:
Modern petrol based finishes are also a royal slut to get off when needed & they are difficult to repair once scratched. I spent 8hrs stripping a No5 of varnish that somebody applied 30yrs ago to "Improve " the look of the rifle.
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You're right of course. Shellac comes off much more easily; with hardly any effort at all. But then that should tell you something about the durability of the finish as well.

About the scratches, I've read that here a few times. Varnish is a big yuck, undoubtedly. But I wouldn't so quickly throw all modern finishes into the same category. So far I'm pretty happy with how easy Tru-Oil is to work with and repair. I had a couple of small sections of my stock I wanted to add some stain to after I already had a number of layers of finish, I simply sanded down the finish in the areas I wanted to touch up, added stain, then rebuilt up the finish in that area, and you can't even tell it was redone. It blends in perfectly. Granted, I didn't technically do it properly, because I refused to sand into the wood where some of the finish now resides. But the net effect of what I accomplished is quite nice, and it was super easy.
 
desporterizer said:
Isn't tru-oil just linseed oil with hardeners in it?
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Tru-Oil is a combination of linseed oil (1+ parts), solvent (mineral spirits - 5+ parts), and a proprietary modified oil (3+ parts), that supposedly contains poly according to some people. It definately hardens up quicker than straight natural oils, so I'd think its correct that it contains hardeners, though not just linseed oil & hardeners.

I think for many firearms though, pure oils would be best, even though they take more time to work with. I mean, I like the finish I'm getting so far, but there's just something 'warmer' about a rubbed in oil finish. I think they suit milsurps better as well. I wouldn't want to use Tru-Oil in some cases. In this particular case, I want my Mosin to look 'purdy'. But its the exception for me. Milsurps shouldn't normally look 'purdy'.

My dad has an old Lee Enfield 303 Brit, not sure which type. But it was sporterized back in the 1950's or 60's, with a glossy monte carlo stock. It was his hunting rifle for years. But when you look at it, it just lacks the character of its original form. So I get where you're coming from a 'de-sporterizing' perspective.
 
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desporterizer said:
Modern petrol based finishes are also a royal slut to get off when needed & they are difficult to repair once scratched. I spent 8hrs stripping a No5 of varnish that somebody applied 30yrs ago to "Improve " the look of the rifle.
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That is where the 1/3 mixture comes into play. It is the finish that the Finns would put on their mosins. So in a way it is still 'correct' b/c the finns did capture a lot of russian built rifles and put them back into service.

If your rifle should get a scratch, just put more of the mixture on the scratch and the turpentine will cause the original layer to 'reflow'. This allows the original coat and the 'new' layer to mix together, becoming one, and then re-dry.

This is what I plan to do to my mosin this fall or winter when I am looking for a project to do. My shellac finish is starting to flake and get scratched off (the acetone in my ed's red that I accidentally got on the stock didn't help).
 
The Finns used everything they could get their hands on as a stock finish short of reindeer turds. These include but are not limited to, pine tar of every grade, pine sap, linseed and other polymerizing plant based oils, bees wax when they could find it, shellac on post war rebuilds, linseed based stain, gun oil, & my favorite, nothing at all! I have tried to duplicate the resin everybody claims is pine tar but have had no luck with any pine tar I have found.
There is nothing wrong with an oil finish, just stay away from sandpaper & stain.
 
This is also shellac
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desporterizer said:
The Finns used everything they could get their hands on as a stock finish short of reindeer turds. These include but are not limited to, pine tar of every grade, pine sap, linseed and other polymerizing plant based oils, bees wax when they could find it, shellac on post war rebuilds, linseed based stain, gun oil, & my favorite, nothing at all! I have tried to duplicate the resin everybody claims is pine tar but have had no luck with any pine tar I have found.
There is nothing wrong with an oil finish, just stay away from sandpaper & stain.
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I agree that I love an oil finish. All my enfields are oil finish. Butter smooth in the hands, like a well curved ... well you get the idea.

Have you tried Swix pine tar? It is for skies, but I have heard good things about it. You can get it a MEC
 
Anything that is a natural wood based finish will replenish the oils in a stock to prevent splits and cracks.The issue is what is appropriate.Raw linseed oil with turpentine is for enfields,not boiled linseed.Amber shellac is what mosins were finished with and the 60+ plus years they were submerged in cosmoline did not help the Finnish survive the test of time.Actually that was quite witty,The Finnish Mosins were coated with what ever they had at the time,wartime expediences
 
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