Working up loads for a pistol, but using a carbine to test 'em

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Mr. Bjorn

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I've finally blown through all my AE factory 9mm, but I've been prepared for this for some time. I have more then enough powder (Bullseye) and 500 Campro 124gr FMJRN and 100 Hornady XTP 124gr. I know Bullseye isn't everyone's favourite, but my research and advice from other folks has led to me conclude that it is more then acceptable for my purposes. Pistol is an M&P9.

I already screwed up the first set of ladder loads by going 4.8gr to 5.8gr in .1gr steps, which appears to be far too much powder (how did I screw that up, I'm still trying to figure out, probably looked at the data for Unique instead) so this weekend I'm gonna pull 'em all and start over. Thinking of working in .1gr steps from 3.8gr to 4.3gr (3.9gr and 4.0gr appear to be magic numbers for most people).

But here's the real question: since I'm kinda broke-ass at the moment, and getting on to a range for load testing is a pain in the ass since it's almost always competitions going on... the only real option I have is crown land (I've a couple good, safe spots) which means that pistols are a major no-go (stupid Canadian gun laws). Luckily I have my nr Keltec Sub2000 in 9mm (omg what a fun gun!) that could be of use. I'm kinda loathe to work up loads for pistol and test them with a PCC, but beggars can't be choosers. I want to use the same loads in both guns, the fmjrn for target and the xtp for small game and slightly larger creatures.

What I would like from you excellent lads & ladies is advice on what, if any conclusions, can be drawn from testing loads primarily made for a pistol from my carbine. I have shot the same AE 9mm out of both the pistol and the carbine, and am quite familiar with the amount of recoil and how they feel, but 'feel' isn't hard data. Thanks all!
 
First thing you need to do is stop loading anything read a manual. 5.8 of Bullseye is 1.4 over max for a 124 grain jacketed bullet. MAX is 4.4 grains.
Go here since you have no money. Not exactly unusual these days. Add the W's. .alliantpowder.com/getting_started/default.aspx
That'd be testing loads for the Carbine, not your pistol. The chances of finding a load that both shoots well and will cycle the action of both firearms are exceedingly slim. It's possible, but highly unlikely that a load that works and is safe in the carbine will be unsafe in a handgun. You must work up the load for each firearm.
Alliant's site load data for a 124 9mm and Bullseye is MAX of 4.4. Reduce by 10% for the start load of 3.9. Work up by .1.
If you're planning on hunting with a 9mm, you'll have to look at where you're going too. Some, but not all, of the municipalities close to TO have calibre restrictions for hunting. Some just for small game. Some for anything. Said calibre is under .275" by cartridge name. Some say .270. 9mm is bigger than .275.
While you're researching that(county/township/municipality web sites for 'by-laws'), check for firearm discharge by-laws too. Lot of the municipalities near TO don't allow shooting at all.
 
Are you just using the loads for plinking? You can make a load that works in both the pistol and the carbine, but the only way to know what works for both is to test them in both. I use a 124gr berry's plated bullet with 4.2gr of bullseye in 2 pistols and a carbine, but they don't go fast enough in one pistol to make 125 power factor for IPSC, so I don't compete with that load. They function perfectly in everything though.

For load development, set up a few rounds with no powder or primers and check that the length is acceptable in both your pistol and carbine (feeds from magazines, bullet doesn't jam into the rifling, etc.). From there, work up from the starting load listed. I go 0.2 gr increments for 10 rounds. Check that they work for each firearm when you can. If you load a bunch and they work in your carbine and you later find out they don't cycle in the pistol, no big deal. Just leave them for the carbine and continue working on the load until you find one that will work for both.

As for 4.0 gr bullseye being the magic number, it wouldn't surprise me that it works. But still, always work up from the starting load.
 
I develop a load for each gun. I start low and work up in 0.2 or 0.3 increments. With Bullseye I would start at 3.4 and work up, making sure that each load would cycle the gun and to find which one shot the best groups.

Many recommendations you see here are from guys who need to meet a particular power factor, so they are telling you of a good and powerful load. For plinking and accuracy, you don't need power, so start real low and work up. Most of my guns are best at about medium power.

I have one that only groups with a load so mild it won't cycle in some other guns and another that only starts to group as I get to Max. This is why you have to test the load in the handgun, not the pistol.
 
So it turns out I had the loads right, but the name of the powder wrong. I'm using Longshot powder, and for some reason, whenever I try to type it, it comes out as 'Bullseye', heh... don't post when tired, I guess. But gonna have to work up loads for both guns seperately, I'll just have to wait until I can afford to go to the ranges again for the restricted. I wish I could find some Bullseye or Unique, but all I could scrape up at AssPro was Longshot. Maybe I'll check Cabelas on the way up to bowhunt in Simcoe County this weekend.
 
For competition shooting we simply don't need to worry about the fine differences in loads that are only .1gn apart. For now simplify your testing by going with .2gn jumps.

There's three things you need to look for at this point. First is meeting the power factor for the event. Second is ensuring you've got a strong enough load to make the pistol cycle correctly. And last, for now, is how well your pistol shoots for accuracy with these bullets and load. But if you work out the loads that meet the first two criteria then you can fine tune for accuracy within that range later on.

There's also the issue of YOUR accuracy vs the cartridge's accuracy. With a handgun shooting quickly such as in a timed competition you can easily give up some cartridge accuracy if the recoil is lessened and let's YOU shoot more accurately. And doing so with a lower power factor is the normal way of achieving that goal.

With winter here watch it though. Be sure to hit the outdoor range for chronoing as some powders can turn out to be temperature sensitive.
 
Mr. Bjorn said:
So it turns out I had the loads right, but the name of the powder wrong. I'm using Longshot powder, and for some reason, whenever I try to type it, it comes out as 'Bullseye', heh... don't post when tired, I guess. But gonna have to work up loads for both guns seperately, I'll just have to wait until I can afford to go to the ranges again for the restricted. I wish I could find some Bullseye or Unique, but all I could scrape up at AssPro was Longshot. Maybe I'll check Cabelas on the way up to bowhunt in Simcoe County this weekend.
Click to expand...

Finding powders can be tricky these days. I suggest you make a list of good powders and take it with you so that when you see what is available you know if it should be purchased. Bullseye will work, but is very fast. it would be low on my list of desirable powders. A medium speed fills the case better and gives you more choices of power.

Here is a list of good 9mm powders:

Titegroup
231
Autocomp
PowerPistol
4756
Unique
AA #7
AA#5
7625
Bullseye
 
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