Worth the weight?

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philthygeezer

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I've been monkeying with the recoil calculator:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

  • A seven pound (scope and mounts included) lightweight .30-06 with 180 grain bullets kicks out 22.3 ft-lbs of recoil energy.
  • A nine pound rifle with the same load kicks out 17.3 ft-lbs. This is a significant reduction in recoil that takes the cartridge from above most people's recoil threshold to just below it.

If you take a sporter weight (9 pounds all in) rifle out and lose a couple of pounds from your pack, you can shoot with 23% less recoil and perhaps avoid a flinch.

So is it worth the weight?
 
philthygeezer said:
If you take a sporter weight (9 pounds all in) rifle out and lose a couple of pounds from your pack, you can shoot with 23% less recoil and perhaps avoid a flinch.

So is it worth the weight?
Click to expand...


I've heard that before. And I've heard about losing a few inches around my waist before I should worry about the weight of a rifle. But after a day of wandering around the forest going up and down hills a heavy rifle gets heavier. And since all I really keep in my pack is some lunch and asswipe, I like light rifles. :)
 
After having a few pretty light rifles I say it is more the velocity of the recoil that gives you a punishing feeling. If I got you to shoot my 300RUM that is roughly 10 pounds, and my 325wsm that is 6.5 you would think the rum has a much softer recoil, when it really pushes almost the exact same ft/ibs. The 325 recoils much faster, roughly 30% faster.

That said I will go as light as I can tolerate the recoil from. I find for myself the limit is about 35ft/ibs. Maybe a tad more with a slow recoil. But I shoot often, I shoot about 50-100 rounds from a center fire almost every weekend year round.

I think that most could handle more recoil if they shot more. I am not talking about shooting a hard kicking rifle more, but shooting a 223 up to a 243 regularly will get you used to firing the rifle. It seems that most of the guys that I see with bad flinches shoot at most 1 box of shells per year from a hunting rifle. I would say many hunters really don't shoot enough to be comfortable with the rifle they are using, irregardless if it weighs 6 pounds or 10 pounds.
 
Hunting rifles should be as light as reasonable

I have very strong opinions on this:
  • A 9lbs 30-06 (M1 Garand equivalent rifle) can be shot by anyone and there is no issue with recoil but it is the limit of acceptable recoil (18ft-lbs),
  • hunting rifles should be as light as possible and include a muzzle brake to keep the weight even lighter, some top of the line 338 Win Mag weight 6.5lbs and have reasonable recoil with a muzzle brake,
  • target rifles should be in the 12 to 18lbs weight range, as recoil is a killer of accuracy when recoil reaches 30-06 level.

My hunting 270WSM weights in a 8lbs and it's a super hunting rifle.
I use the same action with an AI AICS stock and target scope and at 12.5lbs recoil is too much for target shooting.

My plan is to get a 14-16lbs target rifle and a top of the line 6.5-7lbs muzzle brake equipped 338 magnum rifle for hunting.

Alex
 
Happy medium: foothills on foot. Also think river valleys and coulees.

I can see how full-on sheep hunting in craggy mountains with glaciers and skree slopes would demand the lightest rifle possible, and the extra pounds wouldn't be worth it, but what about the other 70%: walking cut-lines in gently rolling hills?

Please don't factor in muzzle brakes. I'll never put one on a rifle as I like my ears and my friends.
 
I want my hunting rifles as light as is reasonable because I walk when I hunt, and a hunting rifle usually gets fired while I'm wearing lots of padding. If you can't shoot it without a muzzle brake, get a lighter calibre. Off the bench, get a pad or two to help.
 
Just my opinion but if recoil is a consideration I wouldn't be looking at a 30-06!

Buy a 270win/130gr GMX superformance in as light a rifle as possible that stills feels good and forget about the 30-06. This will solve your problem and still kill everything you thinking of using the 30-06 for!
 
I packed a 9 1/2 pound 270 around for years and now have a 8 pound 300wsm and a 7 pound 260, and would not go back for the world! And I never notice recoil when shooting at an animal (or at least way less). I say a good recoil pad is worth every penny.
 
shortaction said:
Just my opinion but if recoil is a consideration I wouldn't be looking at a 30-06!

Buy a 270win/130gr GMX superformance in as light a rifle as possible that stills feels good and forget about the 30-06. This will solve your problem and still kill everything you thinking of using the 30-06 for!
Click to expand...

Wouldn't going to 150 grainers with the '06 get you most of the way there on recoil? :evil:
 
rral22 said:
I want my hunting rifles as light as is reasonable because I walk when I hunt, and a hunting rifle usually gets fired while I'm wearing lots of padding. If you can't shoot it without a muzzle brake, get a lighter calibre. Off the bench, get a pad or two to help.
Click to expand...

agreed. I refuse to hunt/guide anyone with a muzzle brake. they are loud, obnoxious, and unnecessary. every time I see one it sends up red flags. the shooter should learn to manage the rifles recoil or get one that is softer on the shoulder.

light guns don't have to kick much. running the numbers on my 5.9lb .308 win, i see a 130gr TTSX @ 3000fps has a recoil of 18.7 ft.lbs combine that with a 1" decelerator or other quality recoil pad, and with a little practice, most shooters should be able to handle it well.
 
shortaction said:
Nope :)
Click to expand...

In 8 pound rifles with 54 grains of powder the recoil calculator above says:

.270 130 grain @ 3060 fps = 14.9 ft-lb
.30-06 150 gr @ 2910 fps = 16.9 ft-lb

That's 13.5 % difference. Is it noticeable?

The 180s @ 2700 fps give 19.5 ft-lb so you're only halfway there at 16.9 I suppose.
 
Low recoil + good killing power = outstanding hunting cartridge

philthygeezer said:
In 8 pound rifles with 54 grains of powder the recoil calculator above says:

.270 130 grain @ 3060 fps = 14.9 ft-lb
.30-06 150 gr @ 2910 fps = 16.9 ft-lb

That's 13.5 % difference. Is it noticeable?

The 180s @ 2700 fps give 19.5 ft-lb so you're only halfway there at 16.9 I suppose.
Click to expand...

Yes it is noticeable, but it doesn't make any difference for hunting purpose where you get to shoot 1 or 2 , maybe 3 shots in a week on hunting!
If you're target shooting and shooting 50-100 rounds, I can guarantee you that you'll feel the difference after shooting 20-50 rounds.

The more important case is a moose load where
.270 150 grain @ 2830 fps = 16.25 ft-lb
.30-06 180 grain @ 2700 fps = 19.5 ft-lb

You get a .270 moose load with the recoil of a .30-06 deer load recoil!
Of course, the 30-06 load is much more potent.

Both 6.55x55 and 270 earned their reputation as outstanding hunting cartridge because of great practical accuracy and good killing power (because of high sectional density bullets).
I'll admit right away, that 30-06 is much more potent!

Alex
 
Amphibious said:
agreed. I refuse to hunt/guide anyone with a muzzle brake. they are loud, obnoxious, and unnecessary. every time I see one it sends up red flags. the shooter should learn to manage the rifles recoil or get one that is softer on the shoulder.

light guns don't have to kick much. running the numbers on my 5.9lb .308 win, i see a 130gr TTSX @ 3000fps has a recoil of 18.7 ft.lbs combine that with a 1" decelerator or other quality recoil pad, and with a little practice, most shooters should be able to handle it well.
Click to expand...

Let's see.


I can shoot my brake'd .308... And still keep the scope on target through-out the shot.

Yep, totally useless, that brake is!

:rolleyes: :ninja:
 
AlexF said:
Yes it is noticeable, but it doesn't make any difference for hunting purpose where you get to shoot 1 or 2 , maybe 3 shots in a week on hunting!
If you're target shooting and shooting 50-100 rounds, I can guarantee you that you'll feel the difference after shooting 20-50 rounds.

The more important case is a moose load where
.270 150 grain @ 2830 fps = 16.25 ft-lb
.30-06 180 grain @ 2700 fps = 19.5 ft-lb

You get a .270 moose load with the recoil of a .30-06 deer load recoil!
Of course, the 30-06 load is much more potent.

Both 6.55x55 and 270 earned their reputation as outstanding hunting cartridge because of great practical accuracy and good killing power (because of high sectional density bullets).
I'll admit right away, that 30-06 is much more potent!

Alex
Click to expand...

Yep I have no problem about potency. I'm just trying to angle into an all-around cartridge that one can shoot a couple boxes at the range per visit without developing a flinch.

Rifle weight plays a big part: a nine-pound (scoped) Win 70 Super Grade in .270 would kick like a 6.5x55 Swede. Maybe the nine pounds is worth it for that...?
 
I went with the 6.5 swede in my t3 lite because I wanted to enjoy the rifle and still have enough power for hunting. I think it's a great match. With a lightweight scope it's 7 pounds scoped and doesn't make me flinch at all, even after a box. My buddies Model 70 featherweight in 30'06 is about the same weight, but holy god does that get uncomfortable after a few at the bench..
 
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