Worth the weight?

As one poster stated, shoot more!
Recoil tolerance is acquired, for the most part.
No one likes shooting a rifle that kicks like a mule.
Stock design plays a part in felt recoil as well.
A good recoil pad [today we have several GOOD choices] makes a big difference.
Muzzle brakes are a no-no in my corner, I absolutely hate them.
The 7-08 or 7x57 combine fine killing power with low recoil.
Final thought. Any rifle over 7½ lbs in the mountains will feel like 30 lbs at the end of the day.
Regards, Eagleye
 
philthygeezer said:
Yep I have no problem about potency. I'm just trying to angle into an all-around cartridge that one can shoot a couple boxes at the range per visit without developing a flinch.

Rifle weight plays a big part: a nine-pound (scoped) Win 70 Super Grade in .270 would kick like a 6.5x55 Swede. Maybe the nine pounds is worth it for that...?
Click to expand...

If you're looking for optimal cartridge and don't mind reloading the choice is simple:
  • 7mm-08 Rem for hunting up to large game (modern day 7mm Mauser)
  • 260 Rem for target shooting and hunting medium-large game (modern day 6.5x55 Swedish)

Get a good mountain/lightweight rifle and you're set.
I love Remington rifles but have had issues with one this year and would go for a lightweight Tikka T3 with a 22-23 inch barrel.
You simply lose too much is a 260 Rem or 7mm-08 by going with a short 20" barrel. (50-75 yards of effective range and large increase in muzzle blast).

Alex
 
For offhand shooting, a heavier rifle steadies more quickly.
But I think the real determining factor is how the rifle will be used.

You don't need a lightweight 'mountain rifle' if you'll have your ass parked in a stand all day. You might as well enjoy the recoil and steady benefits of the heavier rifle.

Then again, nothing wears a man who does a lot of walking down faster than extra weight. Every ounce counts, be it your rifle, or even your boots.

If you decide to go with a heavier rifle, don't go over board. I have an 1886 Winchester with a heavy Octagon barrel. I think the empty weight is 12 lbs. Loaded, in 45-70, it will put your legs to sleep laying across them for a bit.

I think for many, going overboard the other way, too light, could also be a problem. Nobody wants a flinch.

Make sure your rifle fits you well, with the gear that you are going to be wearing while hunting.

Me, for the most part, I no longer need a light long range rifle, and my lightest would be considered a medium weight rifle.

I do walk many many miles every year, but the ranges are short enough that a 94 Winchester works fine for walking.
 
Recoil tolerance is very subjective! A never ending debate!
If you carry a rifle thats too heavy, you may not have the stamina to get where you need to be to make that hard earned shot.
But if you carry a rifle thats too light, and you flinch at the worst possible time! After working and walking for endless hours/days! Its heart breaking! :)
Been there, done that.
After many years of shooting since, I have a near zero percent flinch! Thank GOD!
I have learned soooo much since then!
I can shoot 1/2MOA at 1000 some days, when I do things right, and the conditions are good.
It was a hard fought road to get rid of the flinch!
Just make sure to chose wisely your weapon of choice. Match it to your hunting requirements.
In the real world there is no " perfect all around rifle".
Just rifles that suit certain conditions better.
I have been blessed to have the oportunity/honour to obtain various firearms for special purposes.
Either extream in recoil is counter productive to a physical type if hunt. You need to find a balance you can live with. "Everyone" is different in that respect.
have fun you gunnutz, and may all your shots be straight!
 
1. If you are carrying up a mountain - there is no such thing as too light.
2. I have never felt recoil during a shot at an animal - that includes being cut by a scope more than a few times. I did not know I was beeding until a buddy pointed it out. Concentration, adrenilin and training can make up for a ton of recoil.
3. Too light is also no good for the tradtional hunt and stalk with the chance of deliberate long shots.
4. Muzzle brake or not - one should always, always wear ear protection of some kind (even when hunting). Do not kid yourself that an un-braked rifle is somehow not damaging your hearing. It is not worth it.
 
AlexF said:
I have very strong opinions on this:
  • A 9lbs 30-06 (M1 Garand equivalent rifle) can be shot by anyone and there is no issue with recoil but it is the limit of acceptable recoil (18ft-lbs),
  • hunting rifles should be as light as possible and include a muzzle brake to keep the weight even lighter, some top of the line 338 Win Mag weight 6.5lbs and have reasonable recoil with a muzzle brake,
  • target rifles should be in the 12 to 18lbs weight range, as recoil is a killer of accuracy when recoil reaches 30-06 level.
Click to expand...

Alex

I agree with #1 and #3 but regarding #2 you're way out to lunch. Brakes contribute to hearing loss both for the shooter and worse for the poor sap he's hunting with or being guided by. Brakes also contribute to flinch due to the increased noise level. A brake is a mechanical crutch for people shooting a rifle that is too light or too powerful (or both). A 6.5lb 338WM is an irresponsible choice for 99% of most hunters as an 8.5lb rifle would accomplish much of the recoil mitigation of a brake without the negative consequences. Properly designed stocks and recoil pads also go a long way in the fight against recoil.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Alex

I agree with #1 and #3 but regarding #2 you're way out to lunch. Brakes contribute to hearing loss both for the shooter and worse for the poor sap he's hunting with or being guided by. Brakes also contribute to flinch due to the increased noise level. A brake is a mechanical crutch for people shooting a rifle that is too light or too powerful (or both). A 6.5lb 338WM is an irresponsible choice for 99% of most hunters as an 8.5lb rifle would accomplish much of the recoil mitigation of a brake without the negative consequences. Properly designed stocks and recoil pads also go a long way in the fight against recoil.
Click to expand...

I know that muzzle breaks are extremely controversial and illegal for hunting in much of Africa.
I would never risk damaging my hearing or even worse someone else hearing to get a 30-40% reduction in recoil but I think good muzzle brake design can solve the problem.

I can attest to the fact that simply eliminating muzzle jump is worth it, as it allows the hunter to see the bullet hit the game and kept it on sight at all time.

If they simply make people deaf, then just forget the idea/concept!

Alex
 
Far shot, your comment on #2:
Training will compensate for recoil?
I am not going to insult you I hope, but if you have extensive training, you woulnt have hit your forehead with the scope. Not realizing it till your buddy points it out indicates that you were considerably excited! Thats the reason you hit your head with the scope. Thats my observation. Not a judgement. If a person doesnt get excited, why would you hunt?
Experience has shown me that when you are trained to shoot, those kinds of problems dissappear.
Concentration at evaluating the conditions of the shot usually reduces tension, and excitement.
I find for the vast majority of my hunting, its not till my shot is complete and the animal is on the ground that I get excited.

I reeally like your caution about hearing protection! I wish more shooters would protect thier hearing!
That fact would probably reduce nearly half the flinching problems people have!
 
no insult - I have been hunting for --- well --- several decades and I used to hit my head about 30 years ago when I was a young silly man (with equipment that a poor kid could afford). I have learned a few things since then.

The funny thing was that the animals still went down (that time and many others) and I was in my personal world for the shots. In no way was I concerned, nor worried about recoil, pain, the guy next to me or any other irrelevant consideration.

I dont think that excitment equals being "in the zone" and concentrating on the task at hand. In fact, excitement implies a pointless rush while concentration and focus is entirely different.

Range work with a rifle should in no way be considered how the rifle will feel when you are doing what you are supposed to.

So yes, the more you shoot, and the bigger the rifle you get used to shooting (without bad habits developing), the less many of the others will kick ...

otherwise we would all be shooting 243s...
 
and btw -- if you want a muzzle brake - get one. They are not evil nor a piece of useless equipment.

They have their place. But be aware of the effect of the brake around you. No different than any piece of equipment.


I have seen more hunters take a shot (at a duck or hoofed critter) with their buddy standing beside them and a bit forward - the muzzle is right next to their ear - just shameful and will deafen you just as sure as anything.
 
It would be brutal to have someone shoot a muzzle brake beside you without hearing protection! I have been lucky so far, nobody has done it to me. Except at the range.
But my ear plugs are always in at the clubs!

As for muzzle brakes, I remove mine when I go hunting.
The point of aim doesnt seem to change for any of my rifles when I remove it.

The brakes sure are nice though to see your impacts!
 
I was talking about guys shooting their non-braked rifles or shotguns next to your head in the field - it all comes down to respect.

I generally rifle hunt alone (with my ear protection (amped)) so if I have a braked rifle - I dont worry.
 
AlexF said:
I know that muzzle breaks are extremely controversial and illegal for hunting in much of Africa.
I would never risk damaging my hearing or even worse someone else hearing to get a 30-40% reduction in recoil but I think good muzzle brake design can solve the problem.

I can attest to the fact that simply eliminating muzzle jump is worth it, as it allows the hunter to see the bullet hit the game and kept it on sight at all time.

If they simply make people deaf, then just forget the idea/concept!

Alex
Click to expand...

If they ever design a "quiet" brake I would be interested in seeing and hearing it. I had an eardrum nearly blown out by a guy with a braked 300WM when he took a shot while standing about 2 feet from me. My right ear hurt for 2 days (and it's starting to hurt again right now just remembering it). For guys that hunt alone and with their own ear protection then I say go for it, but I always feel bad for the guide or PH who is standing there looking through his binos when some larrap with too much rifle lets one go at an animal. Recoil management is learned. I didn't start off shooting a 470 NE but I have one now. Practice and dedication will serve most people far better than a brake for the simple benefit of encouraging them to shoot more and develop profeciency.
 
I have a buddy of mine with a braked 300 win mag. Its like shooting a .223. Very soft. That said its to loud. I think brakes are made for those who lack experience in shooting and lack the skills to handle the recoil of the gun they have.
 
Brakes are made for a reason. Many expert hunters and long time shooters use them for a reason.
It does not nesessarily means that they cannot handle a large rifle or shotgun or handgun.

Pros use ported guns in all sorts of shooting sports.

At the range, if someone is shooting a vented weapon, I give them a wide area to work in.

In the field- wear your protection. No excuse not to. They make wonderful devices to protect something more valuable than any deer, elk or any gun - your hearing.

As I said before, I see more people shooting un-vented guns by the head of their "buddy" in hunting situations. Un-vented or not - standing by a muzzle blast is not comfortable.
 
BigUglyMan said:
If they ever design a "quiet" brake I would be interested in seeing and hearing it. I had an eardrum nearly blown out by a guy with a braked 300WM when he took a shot while standing about 2 feet from me. My right ear hurt for 2 days (and it's starting to hurt again right now just remembering it). For guys that hunt alone and with their own ear protection then I say go for it, but I always feel bad for the guide or PH who is standing there looking through his binos when some larrap with too much rifle lets one go at an animal. Recoil management is learned. I didn't start off shooting a 470 NE but I have one now. Practice and dedication will serve most people far better than a brake for the simple benefit of encouraging them to shoot more and develop profeciency.
Click to expand...

They did develop it, only it's called a suppressor. Solves both problems, except its not legal.
 
Muzzle brakes simply have no place on a hunting rifle. Sooner or later you will shoot that thing without hearing protection and the results will be unpleasant. My last experience was a braked .375 H&H that I thew to my shoulder and touched off without considering the brake. Not a happy experience I assure you. Blast will induce flinching more quickly than recoil everytime. Any adult who cannot handle a factory .30/06 ammo needs to invest in a stock that fits, a good recoil pad, purchase factory ammo loaded with lighter bullets or simply handload your ammo a touch lighter.

I had a group of kids out shooting a couple of evenings ago, two were 15 and a 13 year old. They were shooting 180 gr bullets loaded to about 2500 with no ill effects. They were hitting 12" steel plates from 200 yards with iron sights, from slung up sitting, kneeling, and prone without any recoil issues, even with my wife's 21" 6 pound rifle.
 
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