WRAS 3 Gun Match 14 June 2014 results
- Thread starter DM11
- Start date
There are probably several threads on the topic, but here's a quick version. I think WRAS is using conventional IPSC/USPSA scoring based on hit factor, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Two definitions:
Hit factor: Total points scored on a stage divided by the time elapsed (in seconds)
Stage points: Total number of points that it is possible to score on a stage (varies based on how many targets there are: 5pts for every scoring hit)
Competitor scores are based on hit factor for individual stages. Whoever has the highest hit factor on a stage wins the stage, and takes 100% of the possible stage points. Everyone else takes a share of the stage points depending on how well they did relative to the stage winner: If your hit factor was 75% of the stage winner's hit factor, you get 75% of the stage points. You add all of your stage points together to get your overall match score. Whoever has the highest number of total stage points is the match winner. Everyone else is measured against the match winner for the overall score: If your total number of stage points was 75% of the overall winner's stage points, that's your overall score.
...just another reason to stay in Production class...
I ran a borrowed Open gun for the first time on the 14th. It felt DIRTY! I liked it! LOL
I might have to build one. I may also just try a different holster for my Production gun. Time for Uncle Mike to retire . LOL
There was a big crowd in Production as well, with some damn good shooters. I have determined that all I need to do is shoot faster and don't miss.
I was pretty happy with my accuracy overall in this match. I had at least 2 targets that I didn't engage that cost me quite a bit. What's the penalty on a paper target that is not engaged?
carsmovies
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Mississauga, Ontario
-10 for failure to engage and -20 for two mikes per target.
Yeah, that match went very well for me, doesn't always worl like that lol.
I'm just finishing up at steel challenge world shoot this morning but in the next day or two, I'll get back to this. I will show you guys some real simple ways to look at scoring and how you should shoot to use it to your advantage.
I'm just finishing up at steel challenge world shoot this morning but in the next day or two, I'll get back to this. I will show you guys some real simple ways to look at scoring and how you should shoot to use it to your advantage.
carsmovies is correct, but here are the details: If you shot two alphas on the target, you would have scored +10. Not getting the alphas means 0. Two mikes means -20. One FTE is another -10. So instead of scoring +10 points for that one target, you wind up with -30.
Failing to engage one single target puts you down 40 points from where you would have been with two alphas.
Don't do it.
Thanks Al, I got third in steelmaster which is the aggregate of your two main match scores, pretty happy about that! I have a flight delay now so I'll try to explain scoring the simple way.
Before I go into comstock (points divided by time) let's look at straight time. It's easy because whoever shoots the fastest and hits the targets, wins. It doesn't matter if you hit a or d hits on a target, they all count the same. A missed target is a time penalty, usually 3-5 seconds. It's easy to explain that you shouldn't take 25 seconds to hit something, you are better off taking one shot ( to avoid additional penalties) and leaving it. Yes, it's the gamey way but we are talking about getting the best score here.
If I'm shooting straight time, I treat every target as a piece of steel that doesn't ring. You have to hit it but it doesn't matter where. It's like a sypteel challenge plate. If you see white around your dot or sight, you are good to go. Simple scores but can make your shooting get sloppy. Wild Rose used to score like this, but changed because most of us felt scoring would be better. Who knows, the may change it back some day.
Comstock scoring is taking the points you collected on the targets and dividing it by the time it took you. In ipsc/uspsa, you are actually running around collecting all the points you can, like PAC-man.
Time can change the point value and time value changes too. Ask yourself this right now, how important is one second?
Did you say not very? In a three gun stage that the best shooter does in 100 seconds, the value would be 1%, not much at all. If there are 200 points on that stage, you should try to get at least 195 of them. If you look at my stages, you will see that I shot almost all of the available points. I had to, even though I spent extra time to do it.
In the above stage, a second is worth two points. If you beat someone by 5 seconds, you will gain 10 points. If you beat them by five seconds but have one miss, the will be ahead even though they were slower.
Next stage has 8 close targets (40) points and the top guy shot it in 3 seconds. If you shoot it 1 second faster, he will only get 2/3 of the points, and that would be about 66% of your score. At 2 seconds, the hit factor will be 20, making a secon worth 20 points. This is why you can give up a few points here to push the speed.
One more thing to mention. Let's suppose you shoot 75% of the winners points and do it in 75% of the time. Your score will not be 75%, it will actually be ony a little over 50. You lost 25% of the possible points by not shooting them and in addition! you lost 25% of the points by shooting slower..
If something's not clear, let me know. My examples may seem extreme but we really have stages like this. For new shooters, in general, you should just try for a's as fast as you can but if you want to know the value of points/time, guess at a good time and good score and once you divide it, you will know how much a second is actually worth on that stage.
Before I go into comstock (points divided by time) let's look at straight time. It's easy because whoever shoots the fastest and hits the targets, wins. It doesn't matter if you hit a or d hits on a target, they all count the same. A missed target is a time penalty, usually 3-5 seconds. It's easy to explain that you shouldn't take 25 seconds to hit something, you are better off taking one shot ( to avoid additional penalties) and leaving it. Yes, it's the gamey way but we are talking about getting the best score here.
If I'm shooting straight time, I treat every target as a piece of steel that doesn't ring. You have to hit it but it doesn't matter where. It's like a sypteel challenge plate. If you see white around your dot or sight, you are good to go. Simple scores but can make your shooting get sloppy. Wild Rose used to score like this, but changed because most of us felt scoring would be better. Who knows, the may change it back some day.
Comstock scoring is taking the points you collected on the targets and dividing it by the time it took you. In ipsc/uspsa, you are actually running around collecting all the points you can, like PAC-man.
Time can change the point value and time value changes too. Ask yourself this right now, how important is one second?
Did you say not very? In a three gun stage that the best shooter does in 100 seconds, the value would be 1%, not much at all. If there are 200 points on that stage, you should try to get at least 195 of them. If you look at my stages, you will see that I shot almost all of the available points. I had to, even though I spent extra time to do it.
In the above stage, a second is worth two points. If you beat someone by 5 seconds, you will gain 10 points. If you beat them by five seconds but have one miss, the will be ahead even though they were slower.
Next stage has 8 close targets (40) points and the top guy shot it in 3 seconds. If you shoot it 1 second faster, he will only get 2/3 of the points, and that would be about 66% of your score. At 2 seconds, the hit factor will be 20, making a secon worth 20 points. This is why you can give up a few points here to push the speed.
One more thing to mention. Let's suppose you shoot 75% of the winners points and do it in 75% of the time. Your score will not be 75%, it will actually be ony a little over 50. You lost 25% of the possible points by not shooting them and in addition! you lost 25% of the points by shooting slower..
If something's not clear, let me know. My examples may seem extreme but we really have stages like this. For new shooters, in general, you should just try for a's as fast as you can but if you want to know the value of points/time, guess at a good time and good score and once you divide it, you will know how much a second is actually worth on that stage.
Nice job! Third Steelmaster at World's ain't bad, I guess. Though I know it's the product of lots of hard work, I can stop feeling bad about being thoroughly beaten by you at WRAS 3-Gun!
Thanks for the writeup on scoring. Lots of sense to be made from that. I always felt like I preferred Comstock scoring to straight time, but I could never properly say why. Your explanation gives the reason that I couldn't come up with on my own: Comstock makes scoring more complex (the "value" of mikes changes, depending on the stage), and it makes the game more interesting.
The "Pac-Man analogy" and "How important is one second?" are two of the most useful things I've ever heard about understanding scoring, thanks! I hope you don't mind if I borrow them and pass them along.
You mean you get 25% fewer points than the winner, and take 25% more time, right? Then I think you mean "75% of the winner's points and do it in 125% of the winner's time", right?
Though I know it's the product of lots of hard work, I can stop feeling bad about being thoroughly beaten by you at WRAS 3-Gun! Thanks for the writeup on scoring. Lots of sense to be made from that. I always felt like I preferred Comstock scoring to straight time, but I could never properly say why. Your explanation gives the reason that I couldn't come up with on my own: Comstock makes scoring more complex (the "value" of mikes changes, depending on the stage), and it makes the game more interesting.
The "Pac-Man analogy" and "How important is one second?" are two of the most useful things I've ever heard about understanding scoring, thanks! I hope you don't mind if I borrow them and pass them along.
You mean you get 25% fewer points than the winner, and take 25% more time, right? Then I think you mean "75% of the winner's points and do it in 125% of the winner's time", right?
This is kind of complicated lol, I'll try to explain that part again.
If you shoot 75% of the points and are 25% slower on time (meaning you shoot 75% of the best time) then your score will be only a little over 50%, not 75 as you may think.
100 point stage and the fastest time is 10 sec = hit factor is 10 (score divided by time)
If someone shoots 75 points out of the hundred and their time is only 75% as good as the winner (10 sec plus 25% = about 12.5 sec.) then you score as follows. 75 divided by 12.5 = hit factor of 6 and that would be 60% of the winning score.
Of couse if you shoot 75 points and you beat his time by 25%, you will be tied because 75 points divided by 7.5 seconds will give you the same hit factor of 10.
Bottom line is if you have a high hit factor, speed is really important, even if you drop a few points. If the hit factor is low, say 2 or 3, you have to shoot maximum points. Your target in this case, is not the whole target, but rather only the A zone.
If you shoot 75% of the points and are 25% slower on time (meaning you shoot 75% of the best time) then your score will be only a little over 50%, not 75 as you may think.
100 point stage and the fastest time is 10 sec = hit factor is 10 (score divided by time)
If someone shoots 75 points out of the hundred and their time is only 75% as good as the winner (10 sec plus 25% = about 12.5 sec.) then you score as follows. 75 divided by 12.5 = hit factor of 6 and that would be 60% of the winning score.
Of couse if you shoot 75 points and you beat his time by 25%, you will be tied because 75 points divided by 7.5 seconds will give you the same hit factor of 10.
Bottom line is if you have a high hit factor, speed is really important, even if you drop a few points. If the hit factor is low, say 2 or 3, you have to shoot maximum points. Your target in this case, is not the whole target, but rather only the A zone.
