Wtf?!?!?

CyaN1de

CyaN1de

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
89   0   0
Location
KTSA Regular
So I took my Pacnor barreled Savage .223, which has been sitting in the safe since I bought it, out for some load development last weekend.

I tested 9 loads from 24.5gr of RL 15 up to 27.2gr and had 4 loads that showed promise.

Last night I loaded up several rounds of each of the 4 loads and took them out tonight to check for repeatability in each of the loads.

Here are the load specs:
Neck Turned Win cases wt sorted to .5grn
24.5gr of Alliant Reloader 15
Federal 205M Match Primers
Sierra 69grn MK's seated to 2.001 on my comparator (These are just kissing the lands)
Groups shot at 100m prone off my usual F-Class riggings. Rempel Bipod, Protektor rear bag, shooting mat etc.
POI changes on the target are from scope adjustments and not load/wind related.

This first group was shot last weekend.

Group1.jpg



The next 2 groups were both shot this evening about an hour apart.

Group2.jpg


Group3.jpg


Now....before someone chimes in with it's "5th shot syndrome" or "Shooter Error"
a) The flyer in each of the groups was the first shot in each 5 shot group and not the last as is usually the case.
b) I can pull a trigger with the best of them and know if I pull a shot or not.

I will admit that the wind was quite strong from behind, quartering slightly right to left.

Since all 3 "flyers" are to the left the wind may explain this but I did not see an appreciable change that would cause the next four shots to go into a ragged hole, and certainly not on 3 separate occasions.

Any group guru's care to help explain what is happening?

Is it powder load related, seating depth related....will changing seating depth bring this around, or possibly something else?
 
Are you letting the barrel cool between groups?

If so, don't. Try shooting 2- 3 or 4 rds groups back to back but on separate targets.

If the second group doesn't have the flier, then it has to do with the cold bore shot.

Try some CCI 450's maybe that will help.

Jerry
 
The first 2 groups both had 5 foulers of the same load shot just prior to each group but not on target. Only the last pic was shot after a cool down.

I prefer to save what CCI 450's I have for a certain 6BR I have....you understand. :) I may try some though and see if that changes anything as well as some BR4's.

This is not the load I have decided to stick with but I found it very odd that the 1st shot would go wide and the following 4 would make a ragged hole next to it.

Maybe the barrel is hitting a frequency at these loads that spits one of every 5 out of the group.
 
Since we have covered the cold/hot barrel issue, the next one would be primer. I much prefer 450's when it gets cold and yes, you should use them ALLLLLLL up :)

I was going to say load but that would be random not the 1st one. Maybe you need to increase your load another 0.1gr????

Good luck...

Jerry
 
sub 3/4''

You indicated an hour inbetween groups,
your flyer is a cool barrell , regardless , your sub 3/4'' , but I know how you feel , I have a Browning that is identical to this , everytime !!
100 meters , less than 3/4 '' including your flyer rounds, your good to go
 
ruger4 said:
You indicated an hour inbetween groups,
your flyer is a cool barrell
Click to expand...

As stated previously, the only "cool barrel" was the third group. The 2 others had 5 foulers just previous to shooting the groups.

Even the cold barrel shot was only a 10 minute cool down after testing the other loads I had on hand.
 
Is the reciever stressed in the stock; how's the bedding? You mentioned the barrel; is it a new one? did the rifle shoot better with a previous barrel?
Mike
 
smak_daddy said:
69's don't mind to jump. I'd try taking them a bit further off the lands.
Click to expand...

That was the next step and like I said, this is not the load I am going with but if I could find out what causes the flyer it might be worth a shot to get it to come around.

4 into just over 1/4min and one flyer....it's enough to drive one mad. :mad::mad:
 
If you are certain it is not wind (my first guess) then.. if this is off sandbags , my guess is the rifle settling into the bags.

Your example is why I don't promote 2 shot groups. Obviously this load has potential, but there is a gun handling issue somewhere.
 
I tried to check the weather report on the historical archives on the weather network since you never added it but it didn’t give the wind speeds.
Here’s the link, with a couple W’s to add in; http:// w.theweathernetwork.com/weather/cabc0146
The historical report below for October 3rd, 2009.
Search Results: October 3, 2009 - Kamloops Airport
Max Temp: 12.2 °C
Max Temp.Date: Oct.3 2009
Min temp: 7.4 °C
Min Temp. Date: Oct.3 2009
Precip Accumulation: 0.1 mm
This type of information should help if you print it out the current day and add it to your records. Other toys such as portable weather stations with aerometer, barometer, temperature, humidity may assist in understanding the weird shots. A crony report for velocity consistency on your hand ammunition, along with different cases, primers with powder and bullet weights information should narrow down even more. It’s not the easiest thing to shoot through a crony at a target, so I’m not recommending doing both at the same time and especially at a club.
Bipods, rests, sand bags, shooting height have for the most been mentioned already.
Good luck, and I hope that helps a little.

Driller
 
I don't want to complicate things further, but one thing I noticed about the groups is that the flyer changes relationship to the rest of the group over testing. The first group has a flyer that is high left in relation to the group. The 2nd is about even and the 3rd is low left. It does suggest that something is changing, but the change isn't consistent in relation to the group. Of course, the flyer is on the left side on all three groups, which suggests something consistent...something touching the barrel perhaps, wind,(?). Maybe it is just a 3/4 moa barrel. The flyers are in different enough places from the main group to suggest to me the set up isn't all that accurate. It is a puzzle, hope you are going to post the solution on this one.
 
rpollock said:
If you are certain it is not wind (my first guess) then.. if this is off sandbags , my guess is the rifle settling into the bags.

Your example is why I don't promote 2 shot groups. Obviously this load has potential, but there is a gun handling issue somewhere.
Click to expand...

Rick, if this was someones groups other than my own I would have called Wind as well. I was at the range yesterday and there was not a breath of wind out and the only gun I had with me was the spray gun for painting our clubhouse. :( Wish I would have had some of this load to run through as that would have eliminated any wind factor whatsoever.

Finger Toes said:
Are the loads compressed? and are they single loaded or fed from the magazine?
Click to expand...

Not compressed and single loaded.

Driller said:
I tried to check the weather report on the historical archives on the weather network since you never added it but it didn’t give the wind speeds.
Here’s the link, with a couple W’s to add in; http:// w.theweathernetwork.com/weather/cabc0146
The historical report below for October 3rd, 2009.
Search Results: October 3, 2009 - Kamloops Airport
Max Temp: 12.2 °C
Max Temp.Date: Oct.3 2009
Min temp: 7.4 °C
Min Temp. Date: Oct.3 2009
Precip Accumulation: 0.1 mm
This type of information should help if you print it out the current day and add it to your records. Other toys such as portable weather stations with aerometer, barometer, temperature, humidity may assist in understanding the weird shots. A crony report for velocity consistency on your hand ammunition, along with different cases, primers with powder and bullet weights information should narrow down even more. It’s not the easiest thing to shoot through a crony at a target, so I’m not recommending doing both at the same time and especially at a club.
Bipods, rests, sand bags, shooting height have for the most been mentioned already.
Good luck, and I hope that helps a little.

Driller
Click to expand...

Winds were 5-7mph from the west south west. We shoot West to East so wind was quartering slightly right to left but was pretty consistent with only minor gusts.

I did not run this over the chronograph yet as that would entail me to shoot off the bench. I like to do my load testing in the same position that I would be shooting it and that is prone off the Bipod and rear bag.

BCFred said:
It is a puzzle, hope you are going to post the solution on this one.
Click to expand...

If I find a solution, I will.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom