WW1 Research help needed

J

jtaylor

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Hello. Sometimes milsurps gunutz have specialized knowledge. Patrick A. Bates signed up with the 78th Batt. C.O.E.F.
(Winnipeg Grenadiers) on 23 Mar 1916. He fought in the WW1 trenches and was significantly wounded which caused him
to be declared medically unfit for service and even an eventual amputation. He won the military medal. Is there anyone
who can tell me what action prompted this award? I have assummed that after the amputation he went home to his next of kin - his Mom - Mary J. Bates, 110 Intercolonial St., Sydney, N.S. Any infor after the war on this brave soldier?
I have been unsuccessful so far in discovering anything but I do have his extensive medical records.
Are any of you gents capable of helping out? Please and thank you. JOHN
 
If you haven't already I would check with library and archives canada and if you have his service number you can narrow down the results and request his service record and in there might be the recommendation for for the medal. I did this with my great grandfather who served with the 2nd CMR and was wounded during the battle of Cambrai in 1918.
 
Thank you for the excellent source. I'm surprised that in all the medical info I have it doesn't mention HOW he got the MM.
I will let you know if there is a positive result. Surely someone must have some records on the Winnipeg Grenadiers in WW1.
The MM is a significant achievement.
 
Get in touch with Friend BALLSOFICE 154. He is a qualified military archaeologist and researcher and can find out almost ANYTHING. He is also a Nice Guy!
 
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A date of WHEN he was wounded can be very helpful in determining if he was involved in one of the larger battles. Also, Battalion daily records are available online.
 
Another source would be to look at the regimental diary and using his medical record's which should have a pretty detailed account of the various dates of when he went over to england, was taken on strength, sent to his unit in the field and so on throughout his service and his wounding and being sent for treatment at hospital. with that you could cross reference that with the dates in the regimental diary and potentially get a better picture of his service history.

h ttps://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/Pages/war-diaries.aspx
 
Wounded nov6 1918 at Valenciennes by shrapnel. there is nothing in his record to indicate why he received the M.M.
THE M.M. was awarded 24 1 1919 .
try looking in the London Gazette for other people from his unit that received the M.M. then check there record for nov 6 1918 .
and 24 1 1919 . the London Gazette posted all the military awards . its all on line .
 
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It seems that Gaff and I found the same dates on the London Gazette, as well as the Edinburgh Gazette has P A Bates, 78th Bn listed in the 27 January 1919 issue, with no citation given> thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/13393/page/523/data.pdf

If anyone has access to ancestry.ca there should be card detailing the London Gazette date as well as approval from the Battalion and or Brigade Commanding Officer, and maybe a detailing of why the MM was awarded. However with the award being post-armistice it may have just been award sans citation.

Also for war diary searching I find the LAC search a wee bit clunky and use cgwp.uvic.ca/diaries/index.php
 
Thanks for your help. I had no idea we had a military archeologist in Canada. I was able to get a few tidbits from the extensive
medical records. I can now verify that an item that I have was used by sniper Bates in Vimy Ridge which basically will make it a
national treasure. I have enough N.S.family info to make it possible to locate family members. Would love to have a photo or copy.
Who knows where this could lead me.
 
Happy to help I'll keep my eyes out for any photos of the 78th Battalion scout and sniper section. And I'm most interested to hear what else you can find!

As for military archaeology I'm just former military with a degree in archaeology, the Directorate of History and Heritage has a Historic Casualty Identification section that are the qualified military archaeologists.

A little bit off topic... but I happen to have a picture of a picture of the one of the CO's of 78th Bn, James Kirkcaldy, the other CO was John Nelson Semmens so either one would have signed off the award of the MM.

GMS41mD.jpg


Brig Gen. Kirkcaldy, CMG, DSO(and 2 bars), C de G, and MID, photo from the 26th Fd Regt RCA Museum.
 
Ballsofice154 said:
Happy to help I'll keep my eyes out for any photos of the 78th Battalion scout and sniper section. And I'm most interested to hear what else you can find!

As for military archaeology I'm just former military with a degree in archaeology, the Directorate of History and Heritage has a Historic Casualty Identification section that are the qualified military archaeologists.

...

Brig Gen. Kirkcaldy, CMG, DSO(and 2 bars), C de G, and MID, photo from the 26th Fd Regt RCA Museum.
Click to expand...

I had a Weird Harold request hit my inbox a year ago, in my capacity as another military historian. "What coordinate system is 'this' in? Here is where we're looking in the real world."

The coordinates weren't MGRS or Lat Long or any of the obvious ones. I had to ask a military surveyor, who immediately narrowed it down to a Belgian national coordinate system and datum. With that suggestion, everything fell into place. I surmised that the Belge archaeologist just accepted the Belgian dealer's default software settings on their survey equipment. It works for them, but took three foreigners to place the found graves of three WW1 Canadians in a coordinate system the rest of the world would recognize. That felt like a good day at work!
 
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