'I had no choice.'... That, for the uninitiated... It's what's known as an excuse. Considering the amount of people who stepped up to the plate and died... They were supposed to be that bad ass
, no... I say nay
WW2 Americas War Against Switzerland
- Thread starter Coyote Ugly
- Start date
'I had no choice.'... That, for the uninitiated... It's what's known as an excuse. Considering the amount of people who stepped up to the plate and died... They were supposed to be that bad ass
, no... I say nay
The gold reserves in Swiss banks comes to mind. Plus the money invested by terrified Jews to prevent the Nazis from getting it.
Both Sweden and Switzerland played both sides against the middle during WWII while allegedly remaining "neutral".
Nice act if you can pull it off.
Kampfhamster
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Switzerland
Thats easy for you to say, your homeland wasn't surrounded by enemies. My grandpa litteraly looked the nazis in the eye. And it's quite a different thing to judge years later about what we should or could have done.
Not saying that we did wrong, but you have to keep the perspective.
Not saying that we did wrong, but you have to keep the perspective.
The Swiss sold The Oerlikon cannon to both sides and the Swedes did likewise with the Bofors. People used to speculate about the Soviets taking over Switzerland had they rolled up W. Germany. I believe that they would have.
When it all comes to that point, it's all about a personal decision that for most also includes the lives and well being of their family. Dying for ideological principles and endangering your family for doing so???????
So if all those Canadians buried under Maple Leaves in Europe and those whose names are enscribed on the Afghan Memorial didn't die for "ideological principles", indirectly "endangering their families" by the possibility of dying or becoming disabled, why were they there?
It sure wasn't for the joy of it, the Army pay or the food.
All those who died or were tortured opposing the Nazis as civilians were doing so for "ideological principles" and doing do definitely endangered their families.
People fight and die for principles all the time. If it's not worth fighting and dying for, it's not worth f_____g around with. Life is too precious and too short.
It sure wasn't for the joy of it, the Army pay or the food.
All those who died or were tortured opposing the Nazis as civilians were doing so for "ideological principles" and doing do definitely endangered their families.
People fight and die for principles all the time. If it's not worth fighting and dying for, it's not worth f_____g around with. Life is too precious and too short.
Because everybody else was joining; adventure; bed and food after a decade of depression; impress a girl. These are the most used reasons I collected over years of talking to WW2 vets. Most didn't much about what the Nazis were about.
My ole man entered into the war in late 43, chasing his older brother who was already there. Trust me they knew what a Nazi was by then & some of the atrocities they had committed. being late to the party he had to deal with pow's after the war & didn't get home until sometime in 46. I remember vividly when Klaus Barbie was extradited to France in 83. The ole man was happier than a pig in chit & let it slip that if he had been caught in the field he would have never left that spot. Just like the rest they came across. SS officers and sympathisers were looked at in a pretty poor light.
Sure a lot of kids joined the fight for the adventure & 3 hot meals, but others saw it as their duty & their chance to do their part.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There's lots of Mark Felton productions video's on youtube and I haven't seen a bad one yet! He has a real knack for finding unusual stories that a lot of people have never heard about.
Some, maybe.
What about the guys who served with the Mac/Paps in the Spanish Civil War? The depression was on and many of them had leftist/socialist leanings that motivated them to go to Spain to fight against the Fascists. It sure wasn't for the grub or glory according to Hemingway and George Orwell, both of whom fought there. The government threatened to take away their citizenship upon their return. Many Brits, Americans and others served for the same reasons.
When WWII happened, many enlisted in their own army and fought Fascists once again. I read in the Legion magazine about the editor of the "Maple Leaf" paper having a Mac/Pap vet on staff after he was wounded in combat. An rcmp type in battle dress showed up asking questions about this guy as he was a possible 'Bolshevik' and the editor told him to take a hike, saying that he had fought Fascists in Spain and was now fighting them again in France.
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steamy teabag
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Inside Carneys Reich
I like think it was because everyone in Switzerland had a K31 and how to use it. Also a cool site. He has some interesting content and comments.
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Oh, I'm not faulting them for riding it out ' On the Fence ' strangely. It's when I hear that 'Not even Germany tried to mess with the Swiss because they are so dangerous!'
That makes my hair stand on end. You can't claim to be badass when you are basically in Germany's hip pocket... in other words, their wallet in case they lost.
General Staff said that Switzerland COULD be taken, but at a cost of 5 Divisions totally destroyed. With Barbarossa coming up, Adolf figured (wisely) that he couldn't afford to waste 5 divisions. Instead, he wasted them ALL.
Back in the '60s, I worked at CP Airlines in the Flight Kitchen at Vancouver International Airport. My main job was Assistant to the Manager. A PART of my job also involved training Stewardesses in correct food-handling..... which is part of why I still want to know who put a bomb aboard one of our nice DC-6Bs. Staffing in the place was like a re-run of World War Two.... with the Original Cast! Several of the Cooks and at least one Chef were Dutch.... and they hated the Germans. Another Cook was Austrian, tried to say how horrible the Germans were. Bull! he had rank in the HJ, tried to weasel out of it. Boss was Merchant Marine, spent the war dodging U-boats across the Atlantic, dozens of runs. Janitor was Polish, fought the Germans and Russians both, taken prisoner by both, escaped from both, got to France then England, was with the Polish Artillery at fun spots such as Cassino. And the middle-aged women who actually assembled the in-flight meals were mainly Russians and Ukrainians.... and they all got along: they were in Canada now.
Oh, and the Master Chef in the Cold Kitchen was a Nazi, a REAL one, joined the Party in 1928, volunteered for the Waffen-SS in 1940, spent until 1947 in Russia, first fighting and then taking Warsaw apart and shipping a lot of it to the USSR. He was actually a nice guy and loved creating the most elaborate presentation trays for royalty, including our Queen. For mere politicians he had NO regard; when LBJ showed up in Vancouver on a secret mission and talked with PM Pearson about sending the Canadian Army to Viet-Nam, we served them TOURIST-class sandwiches!
And the Butcher in the place was Swiss. He got along with most, one way or another, exercising a shocking vocabulary of profanity in at least five languages. His one comment on the War was simple: "Six years I spend in those God-damned mountains, freeeeezing my ass off, waiting, waiting.... and NOBODY CAME!" His special hate (in a place filled with it) was the Americans.
Why?
"They bombed Schaffhausen!!"
Yes, they did.
Accidentally, of course.
Apologies (diplomatic) WERE made.
And it was only 50 planes.
Navigation error, obviously.
Pretty good out of a mission involving several hundred planes.
Terrible accident.
But the Swiss, for some UNKNOWN reason, saw the daylight..... and stopped shipping completed anti-aircraft guns across the border to the Reich.
Instead they shipped KITS: spare parts, already serial-numbered, to be assembled in Germany.
But Switzerland was Neutral.
Well, they had to pay for those Me-109s somehow!
Back in the '60s, I worked at CP Airlines in the Flight Kitchen at Vancouver International Airport. My main job was Assistant to the Manager. A PART of my job also involved training Stewardesses in correct food-handling..... which is part of why I still want to know who put a bomb aboard one of our nice DC-6Bs. Staffing in the place was like a re-run of World War Two.... with the Original Cast! Several of the Cooks and at least one Chef were Dutch.... and they hated the Germans. Another Cook was Austrian, tried to say how horrible the Germans were. Bull! he had rank in the HJ, tried to weasel out of it. Boss was Merchant Marine, spent the war dodging U-boats across the Atlantic, dozens of runs. Janitor was Polish, fought the Germans and Russians both, taken prisoner by both, escaped from both, got to France then England, was with the Polish Artillery at fun spots such as Cassino. And the middle-aged women who actually assembled the in-flight meals were mainly Russians and Ukrainians.... and they all got along: they were in Canada now.
Oh, and the Master Chef in the Cold Kitchen was a Nazi, a REAL one, joined the Party in 1928, volunteered for the Waffen-SS in 1940, spent until 1947 in Russia, first fighting and then taking Warsaw apart and shipping a lot of it to the USSR. He was actually a nice guy and loved creating the most elaborate presentation trays for royalty, including our Queen. For mere politicians he had NO regard; when LBJ showed up in Vancouver on a secret mission and talked with PM Pearson about sending the Canadian Army to Viet-Nam, we served them TOURIST-class sandwiches!
And the Butcher in the place was Swiss. He got along with most, one way or another, exercising a shocking vocabulary of profanity in at least five languages. His one comment on the War was simple: "Six years I spend in those God-damned mountains, freeeeezing my ass off, waiting, waiting.... and NOBODY CAME!" His special hate (in a place filled with it) was the Americans.
Why?
"They bombed Schaffhausen!!"
Yes, they did.
Accidentally, of course.
Apologies (diplomatic) WERE made.
And it was only 50 planes.
Navigation error, obviously.
Pretty good out of a mission involving several hundred planes.
Terrible accident.
But the Swiss, for some UNKNOWN reason, saw the daylight..... and stopped shipping completed anti-aircraft guns across the border to the Reich.
Instead they shipped KITS: spare parts, already serial-numbered, to be assembled in Germany.
But Switzerland was Neutral.
Well, they had to pay for those Me-109s somehow!
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I see where you're coming from but the one thing powerful politicians and bureaucrats/criminals do, is make sure they don't mess with their personal fortunes, if they can help it.
All of the most powerful and influential people in the world had their valuables in Swiss banks.
We're not talking about common everyday millionaires here. We're talking about people with such vast amounts of tangible wealth, such as art, gold, diamonds etc, that they aren't looking for the best interest rate to be paid. Actually they aren't the least bit interested in interest. They're actually paying to store their wealth in a safe/absolutely discreet manner.
Remember how the US bailed out Goldman Sachs??? They did that because all of the pension plans of the top bureaucrats, senators, governors, mayors etc are handled by GS. They became untouchable and still ar for that reason alone. Same thing with Switzerland and its financial sector.
I'm actually surprised the Soviets didn't try to invade them. They threw the lives of their soldiers away on whims. I think Switzerland was safe from invasion, simply because a lot of wealth being skimmed off the top of the Soviet Union was in her vaults. That wealth was under the control/ownership of the top echelons of Soviet Society.
Look at how many multi millionaires/billionaires popped up after the fall of the Soviet regimes. That money was hidden somewhere, so much the it helped lead to the demise of the Soviet Union.
Holier than thou, are we?
Brief history of Canada’s responses to refugees
On 4 June 1969, Canada belatedly signed the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, 18 years after it was adopted by the United Nations, and 15 years after it entered into force.
In the 40 years since Canada became a party to the Refugee Convention, it has gained the enviable reputation of being a world leader in protecting refugees.
In fact, there has been good and bad in Canadian responses to refugees, both before and after signing the Refugee Convention.
Up to 1930
1930-1945
1945-1951
1952-1970
1970-1986
1987-2009
1930-1945
Early 1930s In the context of the depression and fears of communism, there were many deportations of the unemployed, labour activists and suspected Communists. Risk of persecution was not a barrier to deportation, despite concerns raised by the Canadian Labour Defence League about the dangers of return to fascist countries. Hans Kist, one of the radical leaders deported in 1932, reportedly died of torture in a German concentration camp.
1930s With the rise of Hitler in Germany, efforts were made by the Jewish community and some non-Jewish groups to persuade the government to admit refugees. They were unsuccessful. Anti-semitism was dominant within the immigration department and in the Canadian public.
1938 The St Louis sailed from Hamburg with 907 Jewish refugees on board. After being turned away by Cuba, their original destination, the ship sought a haven elsewhere in the Americas. Canada, like all other countries, refused them admittance. The ship returned to Europe where most of the passengers died in the Holocaust.
1938 US President Roosevelt convened a conference in Évian to discuss solutions to the refugee crisis. Canada participated reluctantly and with the firm intention of making no commitments to admit any refugees.
1933-1945 During the 12-year period of Nazi rule in Germany, Canada admitted fewer than 5,000 Jewish refugees, one of the worst records of any democracies. In 1945, asked how many Jews Canada would admit after the war, a Canadian official answered “None is too many”.
https://ccrweb.ca/sites/ccrweb.ca/files/static-files/canadarefugeeshistory2.htm
Brief history of Canada’s responses to refugees
On 4 June 1969, Canada belatedly signed the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, 18 years after it was adopted by the United Nations, and 15 years after it entered into force.
In the 40 years since Canada became a party to the Refugee Convention, it has gained the enviable reputation of being a world leader in protecting refugees.
In fact, there has been good and bad in Canadian responses to refugees, both before and after signing the Refugee Convention.
Up to 1930
1930-1945
1945-1951
1952-1970
1970-1986
1987-2009
1930-1945
Early 1930s In the context of the depression and fears of communism, there were many deportations of the unemployed, labour activists and suspected Communists. Risk of persecution was not a barrier to deportation, despite concerns raised by the Canadian Labour Defence League about the dangers of return to fascist countries. Hans Kist, one of the radical leaders deported in 1932, reportedly died of torture in a German concentration camp.
1930s With the rise of Hitler in Germany, efforts were made by the Jewish community and some non-Jewish groups to persuade the government to admit refugees. They were unsuccessful. Anti-semitism was dominant within the immigration department and in the Canadian public.
1938 The St Louis sailed from Hamburg with 907 Jewish refugees on board. After being turned away by Cuba, their original destination, the ship sought a haven elsewhere in the Americas. Canada, like all other countries, refused them admittance. The ship returned to Europe where most of the passengers died in the Holocaust.
1938 US President Roosevelt convened a conference in Évian to discuss solutions to the refugee crisis. Canada participated reluctantly and with the firm intention of making no commitments to admit any refugees.
1933-1945 During the 12-year period of Nazi rule in Germany, Canada admitted fewer than 5,000 Jewish refugees, one of the worst records of any democracies. In 1945, asked how many Jews Canada would admit after the war, a Canadian official answered “None is too many”.
https://ccrweb.ca/sites/ccrweb.ca/files/static-files/canadarefugeeshistory2.htm
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We fought the Nazi's; not perfect by a sight, but we didn't hold the bully's wallet while he beat up on the little kid...all the while claiming that the reason why we didn't get thrashed is " Because we are so Badass "
Want to sell us the "Swiss are so good that no-one messes with us !" BS line again?
I still want to know who put a bomb aboard one of our nice DC-6Bs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Pacific_Air_Lines_Flight_21
It was a popular way to solve marital or business problems in those days.
Grizz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Pacific_Air_Lines_Flight_21
It was a popular way to solve marital or business problems in those days.
Grizz
