WW2 Rifleman qualifications

bluemike807

bluemike807

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Does anyone know the nature of the training and/or qualification process given to Canadian Infantrymen for WWII?

ie. How were men trained on the No4Mk1? What were the criteria for qualification?
 
Shoot to live is no longer in use.

Canadian Forces Operational Shooting Program (CFOSP) is the new version. Most of the principles are the same...the practices have changed for most small arms.
 
"Shoot to Live" is probably considered 'racist' by the politically-correct clowns running the shop these days.

The country which does NOT objectify and purposely denigrate its enemy is the country which is begging to lose the war. Psychologically, men need to feel that they have a chance of coming out alive; they cannot possibly do this if the enemy is portrayed as their neighbour and as a fellow human being with rights equal to theirs.

Kraut, Jap, Nip, Slant, Nazi and all the other nasty words served their purpose. Canadians came home alive, and that's all we care about..... just the same as The Other Guys only cared if THEIR friends and family came home alive.

There is a time to put away the denigration and hatred. After all, some of The Other Guys came here after both World Wars and their sons and grandsons are our friends and neighbours and fellow-servicemen in the service of this country today.

But the time to put it away is NOT in the middle of a conflict. That's just begging for casualties.... and we have enough of those now.
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QuincyXavier said:
I recall seeing a training manual for exactly what your looking for.
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=1433

Found it here...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260959
Click to expand...

"Shoot to Live" is probably one of the best books for the use of the Lee Enfield rifle that was ever written. If you keep frequenting the Gun Shows, you just might be able to pick up a copy.

It is one of the three books that made up my "Bible" when I was shooting targets, and at 69 years old, I still have them, and still refer to them.

I bought a copy back in the 50s, but the one I have now is signed by the Author, and was awarded to me as a shooting prize. NOBODY gets the loan of that one.

The Standard was 15 aimed rounds a minute for the Average Rifleman, but many could do 20 or more. About 12 years ago, at a demonstration shoot at a Gun Club, using a Figure 11 target at 50 yards, in one minute timed, recorded on video tape with about 30 people present, I fired 39 rounds and obtained 38 hits, with the miss being about 2 inches off target.

But then again, the old Sergeant-Major I had the pleasure of learning from had been an Instructor at the School of Musketry in Hythe, England.
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ABCZAR said:
Shoot to live is no longer in use.

Canadian Forces Operational Shooting Program (CFOSP) is the new version. Most of the principles are the same...the practices have changed for most small arms.
Click to expand...

I found this:
armyapp.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/CFOSP-B-GL-382-001-FP-001.pdf

But it doesn't cover prone/seated/kneeling/standing positions. Is that documented anywhere?
 
bluemike807 said:
Does anyone know the nature of the training and/or qualification process given to Canadian Infantrymen for WWII?

ie. How were men trained on the No4Mk1? What were the criteria for qualification?
Click to expand...

To specifically answer your question asked, one of the best books I've ever read (and trained with) on shooting the Enfield rifle is available in electronic format, professionally scanned (thanks to Ian Robertson), in the Knowledge Library section Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php...esearch-for-milsurp-collectors-and-re-loaders

"Shoot-to-Live" - 1945 (click here)

Presenting the Johnson Method of Musketry Coaching As Adopted By the Canadian Army, Ottawa, Chief of the General Staff.

This is an excellent Canadian Government issued training manual. If you are specifically a collector and shooter of Lee Enfield rifles, you'll find this to be an outstanding reference work and it contains a wealth of information on how to properly shoot the No.4 Mk1 Enfield, although much of the content is applicable to any bolt action rifle. I remember being issued this manual as part of our regimental rifle team, when I was a little younger back in the early 60's. ;)

Regards,
Doug
 
Cannot spell

ABCZAR said:
Shoot to live is no longer in use.

Canadian Forces Operational Shooting Program (CFOSP) is the new version. Most of the principles are the same...the practices have changed for most small arms.
Click to expand...

The Sig Sauer is referred to as the Sig Saurer (in several places, therefore not your occasional typo.)
 
Thanks gents for all the information - I've actually printed off and bound Shoot to Live, and will be digesting it over the next few days; its an amazing resource and I look forward to sharing it with some friends who are also learning to shoot full wood Enfields.

I would like to clarify something though - my question was more aimed at the following:

Was there some 'exam' - practical Im assuming - that riflemen would have to undertake as a final judgement on their proficiency. A few posters have mentioned the 'Mad Minute' or thereabouts - the 15 aimed shots (and hits) in 60 seconds. But there must have been more than that? Was there a checklist of criteria the soldier had to display and accomplish in a single shooting session?

ie:

Demonstrate safe handling procedures when picking up the rifle and checking it for functionality and safety (ie PROVE)

Correctly load while continuing to exercise safety procedures.

Assume firing stance(s) with correct posture and configuration

Fire at X ranges Y times scoring a minimum of Z hits.

etc.
 
bluemike807 said:
Thanks gents for all the information - I've actually printed off and bound Shoot to Live, and will be digesting it over the next few days; its an amazing resource and I look forward to sharing it with some friends who are also learning to shoot full wood Enfields.

I would like to clarify something though - my question was more aimed at the following:

Was there some 'exam' - practical Im assuming - that riflemen would have to undertake as a final judgement on their proficiency. A few posters have mentioned the 'Mad Minute' or thereabouts - the 15 aimed shots (and hits) in 60 seconds. But there must have been more than that? Was there a checklist of criteria the soldier had to display and accomplish in a single shooting session?

ie:

Demonstrate safe handling procedures when picking up the rifle and checking it for functionality and safety (ie PROVE)

Correctly load while continuing to exercise safety procedures.

Assume firing stance(s) with correct posture and configuration

Fire at X ranges Y times scoring a minimum of Z hits.

etc.
Click to expand...

I talked to a WWII vet who when training in England had to do what you describe above...the 15 shots in one minute as he explained it had to be accurate and all handling drills done correctly.....the point being if all drills are done correctly/safely and all 15 shots were hits within that one minute you were efficient with the rifle.

That what I was told.
 
carbonrod said:
I found this:
armyapp.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/CFOSP-B-GL-382-001-FP-001.pdf

But it doesn't cover prone/seated/kneeling/standing positions. Is that documented anywhere?
Click to expand...

For current small arms all firing positions are covered in their individual publications (PAMS).
 
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