WWI Canadian Contract Colt 1911 (Guru help needed)

bellero

bellero

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
121   0   0
Location
AB
I'm considering the purchase of a Commercial Colt 1911 made in 1914, the serial number is in the 153XX range. The seller thinks it may be part of the 5000 colts 1911 obtained by Col J. Wesley Allison of Morrisburg Ont. I always thought that last serial number for the WWI canadian contract 1911's didn't go as high as 15000. I did some quick research on google but I only found contradicting information. Below is some different bits from what I found. What is the general consensus regarding the serial number range of those pistols??



1)"Also, the first 2,000 pistols were shipped to the Government of Canada, Department of Militia and Defence, c/o J.Wesley Allison, Waddington, New York. The remaining 3,000 pistols were shipped in three batches direct to H.W.Brown, Quebec, and it appears yours was one of these, part of a batch of 1,000 shipped 7th November 1914. The serial number range was C9800 to C12700."

2)"5,000 Government Models within the
C5400-C16599 range shipped to the Canadian government in 1914."

3)Colt M1911 Canadian Contract: S/N C5400 to C16599 = Sept. to Nov., 1914 ( Only 5000 pistols in this serial number range were shipped to Canada.) Caliber .45 ACP

4)There was a contract for 5000 pistols sold to Canada in the serial C5000 to C15000 range.

Thanks for helping
 
# 3 is the info I have as well. From what I read the serial number must contain a C to be one of the Canadian contract.
Colt: S/N 7501 to (approximately) 20,000 = Oct. 10, 1912 to Jan. 1913
I'm not an expert.
I think I recently saw a Canadian contract for sale here for $20K
 
Yogi05 said:
# 3 is the info I have as well. From what I read the serial number must contain a C to be one of the Canadian contract.
Colt: S/N 7501 to (approximately) 20,000 = Oct. 10, 1912 to Jan. 1913
I'm not an expert.
I think I recently saw a Canadian contract for sale here for $20K
Click to expand...

Thanks Yogi, the prefix C stands for Commercial, the Canadian Contract pistols usually range between $2000 and $3500 depending on the condition. If I had 20K to spend on a 1911, it'd be a Singer or a NAA
 
Buy it. Order a Colt letter. If it comes back saying it was sold to the Canadian government, you're golden. If not, you're still in possession of one of the nicest pistols ever made. :D Or I'll buy it from you.
 
Colt Commercial Model WW1



Serial Number C-153xx is too high to be part of the Canadian procurement. The 5,000 pistol procurement was sn ranges:
Sep 11, 1914 1,000 C3000-8400
Sep 24, 1914 300 C5400-C8700
Sep 29, 1914 300 C8000-C9500
Sep 30, 1914 100 C8500- C9700
Oct 1, 1914 180 C8500-C9700
Oct 2, 1914 120 C5700-C9700
Shipped to Gov't of Canada, dept. of Militia & Defense, c/o J. Wesley, Waddington, NY
3,000 more were shipped to HW Brown, Quebec, Canada for a total of 5,000.
Oct 31, 1914 1,000 C7900-11400
Nov 7, 1914 1,000 C9800-C12700
Nov 14, 1914 1,000 C11100-C13500




If someone is stupid enough to spend $20K, on a Canadian Contract Colt, send them to me I'll sell both of mine! $2,500.00 and it would have to be in impecable condition. A mix and match, or one with minor replaced parts is worth about $800.00 depending on the parts replaced. Before buying, verify that parts have not been replaced, or you will get taken!

http://www.coolgunsite.com/

http://www.sightm1911.com/
 
Garand said:
Colt Commercial Model WW1



Serial Number C-153xx is too high to be part of the Canadian procurement. The 5,000 pistol procurement was sn ranges:
Sep 11, 1914 1,000 C3000-8400
Sep 24, 1914 300 C5400-C8700
Sep 29, 1914 300 C8000-C9500
Sep 30, 1914 100 C8500- C9700
Oct 1, 1914 180 C8500-C9700
Oct 2, 1914 120 C5700-C9700
Shipped to Gov't of Canada, dept. of Militia & Defense, c/o J. Wesley, Waddington, NY
3,000 more were shipped to HW Brown, Quebec, Canada for a total of 5,000.
Oct 31, 1914 1,000 C7900-11400
Nov 7, 1914 1,000 C9800-C12700
Nov 14, 1914 1,000 C11100-C13500




If someone is stupid enough to spend $20K, on a Canadian Contract Colt, send them to me I'll sell both of mine! $2,500.00 and it would have to be in impecable condition. A mix and match, or one with minor replaced parts is worth about $800.00 depending on the parts replaced. Before buying, verify that parts have not been replaced, or you will get taken!

http://www.coolgunsite.com/

http://www.sightm1911.com/
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help Garand. Where did you get the serial numbers breakdown? All the canadian contract 1911's I can find on US websites are above $2000. Where did you see one at $800? At this price, I'd get one even if it's mismatched or with replaced parts.

Cheers
 
The $20k 1911 was not a Canadian contract Colt, it was a North American Arms 1911 made in Quebec. It is reported only 100 were made and none were issued to combat forces. Very rare indeed and far beyond my reach but as they say something is worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay for it. $800 for a mixmaster in so-so condition..... again it may be worth it to someone. These older USGI pistol do have an enthusiast following down south and as such command a premium price, that same enthusiasm does seem to be gaining momentum in Canada however.....
 
79Jimmy said:
The $20k 1911 was not a Canadian contract Colt, it was a North American Arms 1911 made in Quebec. It is reported only 100 were made and none were issued to combat forces. Very rare indeed and far beyond my reach but as they say something is worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay for it.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. I wasn't sure which one it was. I at least had the Canada part right :)
 
bellero said:
Thanks for your help Garand. Where did you get the serial numbers breakdown? All the canadian contract 1911's I can find on US websites are above $2000. Where did you see one at $800? At this price, I'd get one even if it's mismatched or with replaced parts.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I'll pass on it, I want one of the Canadian contract although this one was a nice commercial.
 
Naa 1911

On the North American Arms 1911s...

A few years ago, around 2006-2007 if my memory serves me well, I had a chance, as a collector, to have a hands on examination on one of these with friend, the late José (from Zefarm fame) at a local show. Pistol was a well kept secret & was acquired from an estate by another well know Quebec dealer a year or 2 prior to that date.

Wearing gloves & avoiding as much as possible contact with metal parts ( !! ) I looked it over without field stripping. Pistol sn was something like 37 / 47 or 87...unsure about the first digit but the second one was a 7. A very rare & desirable piece for the serious collector for sure, I was not impressed with the fit & finish. It was intermediate between a polished blue & a military matte one. Parts fit & finish were average & I wouldnt say top notch. But it was a fine piece in the 92-94% range.

Brought to that show for interested buyers (about 2-3 serious collectors / dealers), story goes it went away in the 28K range...never to heard from since...

Happy to had the chance to hold one of these, proof is that there was at least one of these remaining in the country a few years back...

Marc
 
kidvett said:
On the North American Arms 1911s...

A few years ago, around 2006-2007 if my memory serves me well, I had a chance, as a collector, to have a hands on examination on one of these with friend, the late José (from Zefarm fame) at a local show. Pistol was a well kept secret & was acquired from an estate by another well know Quebec dealer a year or 2 prior to that date.

Wearing gloves & avoiding as much as possible contact with metal parts ( !! ) I looked it over without field stripping. Pistol sn was something like 37 / 47 or 87...unsure about the first digit but the second one was a 7. A very rare & desirable piece for the serious collector for sure, I was not impressed with the fit & finish. It was intermediate between a polished blue & a military matte one. Parts fit & finish were average & I wouldnt say top notch. But it was a fine piece in the 92-94% range.

Brought to that show for interested buyers (about 2-3 serious collectors / dealers), story goes it went away in the 28K range...never to heard from since...

Happy to had the chance to hold one of these, proof is that there was at least one of these remaining in the country a few years back...

Marc
Click to expand...

Thanks for the story Marc, there's also one for sale on the EE at this moment.
 
I know that the Canadian government had a Proofing system at that time. They certainly proofed one whale of a heap of Ross Rifles as well as many commercials for Canadian and British use.

Question is simple: did they apply their DCP-crossed-flags-and-crown to the Colts as well?

BTW, Officers were Gentlemen and a Gentleman was expected to provide his OWN personal weapon, the only requirement being that it had to use issue ammo. This was because Gentlemen obviously knew more about firearms than the Lower Classes. The Gentleman, though, was given a cash allowance with which to make this purchase, many Gentlemen being rather on the impecunious side on enlistment. For those whose education had been neglected, though, the Army thoughtfully maintained a supply of suitable arms for sale to the incoming Gentlemen at market price. This likely is why the Gentleman referred to previously had to pay for HIS gun. It was HIS, not the Army's. If an NCO or other OR was required through his duties to pack a handgun, the Army would supply such but the gun remained Army property. Even today, an Officer is expected to purchase his own sword, should he require such for appropriate Mess and Parade occasions.

Hope this helps.
.
 
On the NAA's..... there were ~ 100 produced. These weren't full production models but "pre production" examples. Hence the unique serial number stamping system on these unlike those of the Colt, Springfield Armory, Rem-UMC models None were known to have been accepted into "service". The war ended before the NAA 1911 went into production.

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif

NAA.
 
Ganderite said:
I have one that a family friend took to WW1. i was told h had to buy it, which sounded strange to me. I also have his holster. Serial # is C 70XX
Click to expand...

As I understood it, WWI officers had to buy their own sidearms. And if it was an enlisted man, could he have chosen to buy a pistol as a bit of extra 'insurance'?
 
Ganderite said:
I have one that a family friend took to WW1. i was told h had to buy it, which sounded strange to me. I also have his holster. Serial # is C 70XX
Click to expand...

As I understood it, WWI officers had to buy their own sidearms and other kit. Alternatively, if the original owner was an enlisted man, could he have chosen to buy a pistol as a bit of extra 'insurance'?

Neat to think that you have a pistol with a pedigree like that, one you know really has been to the trenches, and who it was with!
 
bellero said:
Thanks for your help Garand. Where did you get the serial numbers breakdown? All the canadian contract 1911's I can find on US websites are above $2000. Where did you see one at $800? At this price, I'd get one even if it's mismatched or with replaced parts.

Cheers
Click to expand...

From a publication on Canadian service handguns that I borrowed from a friend (Grant R). I have bought 2x 1914's in the last 2 years, 1 for $500 and, 1 had new front and rear sights, 1 for $800, both had replacement barrels, 1 had a grounded off lanyard loop, 1 had a new hammer and sear, and other smaller parts replaced. I wanted one for re-enactor matches, so the replacement barrels didn't bother me and I'm trying to get the sights replaced with issue sights, to give it the look of period correct. This is difficult, as you just can't get pre 1918 sights anymore. These guns will be used in competition, so "pretty" is not that important to me.Both were bought off the EE, one from a person that didn't realize that it contained replacement parts. Prices on a US website, are not that relevent in Canada!
 
Hi Bellero,

Why not post some pictures of the pistol if you are still considering? I know their are guys on here who will be able to help a lot more if they actually see the gun, it would suck to buy it to discover some of the details aren't correct if you are spending a lot of cash on it.

-Steve
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom