WWI Leather sling - how were they installed?

recce said:
Pics loaded now.
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Excellent! Thanks for the pics. Ive got a great No1Mk3 (no star) Canadian, 38 Btn, marked, great barrel, but the oil on it is soooo thick, so bad, it looks like a varnish/tru oil coating. Its very dark, almost black.

Im trying to figure out how to get rid of that coat. Ive never done a big de-greasing/de-oiling on the wood before. Yours looks well done.
 
Mk VII said:
Here's one example.

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A cool picture! I tried to "zoom in" to see exactly how those slings were installed / fastened - which way in / which way out / how was the thong tied. Front row - 4th and 5th guy have different slings on their rifles - as far as I got - looks like the WWII type like I have for the Lee Enfield No. 4 - with the metal "C"'s on them - but picture appears to be from WWI. Sort of surprising to me that a military outfit would look different one guy to the next when decked out for "parade" - must have had to do with what was available at that time. As if some of those guys equipped with 1914 Pattern leather gear, and others with earlier "web" gear - not leather.
 
Some of those slings look like Slade-Wallace brushed white gear. Ive got a 1916 web sling, date and manfc stamp on one of the brass buckles.
 
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koldt said:
Excellent! Thanks for the pics. Ive got a great No1Mk3 (no star) Canadian, 38 Btn, marked, great barrel, but the oil on it is soooo thick, so bad, it looks like a varnish/tru oil coating. Its very dark, almost black.

Im trying to figure out how to get rid of that coat. Ive never done a big de-greasing/de-oiling on the wood before. Yours looks well done.
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I do not have a lot of experience trying to clean up 100 year old soaked wood. Was my impression that the "black" might be a combination of dirt, sweat and linseed oil that has been oxidizing with oxygen from the air. I mostly have used Circa 1850 Paint and Varnish remover - no sanding or scraping with metal scraper. Is a couple long stocks here for P14 that are nearly all black - no evidence at all that they were made that way - just 100 years plus of the air reacting with that linseed oil, I think.

I did use that Circa 1850 stuff on a WWII re-build M1917 - that long stock and the hand guards had numerous dents and dings - many "dark" or "black" marks - I was pleasantly surprised that most of that crap came off nicely - and I discovered some "brands" or "cartouche" in that wood, that I did not know was there, under that skin of crap. From what I had read about USA re-build - is probable / possible that the long stock might have been made in WWI, and at least one of the hand guards might have been made during WWII. Taught me not to use sandpaper or scraping - I would have removed those stamps without knowing they were there.

For better or worse, on some Swede military stocks - I set on a tray and slathered on acetone - liberally - in an attempt to soften up visible "grease" and try to pull some of the oils out of the wood. Followed with really "hard" rubbing with terry cloth rags - seemed to pull out stuff. I had read to apply acetone and then lay on layers of newsprint or similar - to draw that oil out of the wood. To some extent, is likely defeating the point - I think old school military finishes were meant to be soaked INTO the wood grains - not sitting in a layer ON TOP of the wood.

Contrarily - I am not so sure that gun "lube" and oils were meant to be soaked into the wood - several instances of recoil lugs and inletting gone "punky" - I am sure is from the "wrong" oils going into the wood - so is value, I think, to get those out of there. Not sure that most military guns put together with notion to still be used 100 years later - I suspect projected time of a war-time soldier's use was in weeks, not years.
 
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Potashminer said:
I do not have a lot of experience trying to clean up 100 year old soaked wood. Was my impression that the "black" might be a combination of dirt, sweat and linseed oil that has been oxidizing with oxygen from the air. I mostly have used Circa 1850 Paint and Varnish remover - no sanding or scraping with metal scraper. Is a couple long stocks here for P14 that are nearly all black - no evidence at all that they were made that way - just 100 years plus of the air reacting with that linseed oil, I think.

I did use that Circa 1850 stuff on a WWII re-build M1917 - that long stock and the hand guards had numerous dents and dings - many "dark" or "black" marks - I was pleasantly surprised that most of that crap came off nicely - and I discovered some "brands" or "cartouche" in that wood, that I did not know was there, under that skin of crap. From what I had read about USA re-build - is probable / possible that the long stock might have been made in WWI, and at least one of the hand guards might have been made during WWII. Taught me not to use sandpaper or scraping - I would have removed those stamps without knowing they were there.

For better or worse, on some Swede military stocks - I set on a tray and slathered on acetone - liberally - in an attempt to soften up visible "grease" and try to pull some of the oils out of the wood. Followed with really "hard" rubbing with terry cloth rags - seemed to pull out stuff. I had read to apply acetone and then lay on layers of newsprint or similar - to draw that oil out of the wood. To some extent, is likely defeating the point - I think old school military finishes were meant to be soaked INTO the wood grains - not sitting in a layer ON TOP of the wood.

Contrarily - I am not so sure that gun "lube" and oils were meant to be soaked into the wood - several instances of recoil lugs and inletting gone "punky" - I am sure is from the "wrong" oils going into the wood - so is value, I think, to get those out of there. Not sure that most military guns put together with notion to still be used 100 years later - I suspect projected time of a war-time soldier's use was in weeks, not years.
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Thanx for the info. I agree that age, etc are what's making this dark, and I dont want to be using any scraper or steel wool. Ive got the usual dents that I would like to try soaking and ironing out too. So we'll see how that goes.
I heard orange cleaner works well and Ive got lots of acetone, so chemicals will work I hope.
 
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Some time ago - likely from Amazon.ca or local hardware store - I got a "bulk" box of probably three dozen made-in-China 1" wide bristle brushes - cheap enough that I often treat them as "throw-away" items - I use those bristle brushes to slosh on various de-greaser fluids or finishes - usually followed with a good rub-down with terry cloth ("old" bath towels, or pieces there-of)
 
koldt said:
Excellent! Thanks for the pics. Ive got a great No1Mk3 (no star) Canadian, 38 Btn, marked, great barrel, but the oil on it is soooo thick, so bad, it looks like a varnish/tru oil coating. Its very dark, almost black.

Im trying to figure out how to get rid of that coat. Ive never done a big de-greasing/de-oiling on the wood before. Yours looks well done.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to clean up my P14 stock now, no varnish but it's oily and black as well. I'll try the 1850 stripper that Potashminer mentioned.
 
Be fore warned that stripping that stuff off will make it look very different, than it is now!!! From an acquaintance, he advised to mix 50-50 MinWax Red Mahoganey stain with this "double boiled linseed oil" that I got at Home Hardware. Makes a decent stain - was the main stock for that M1917 and two hand guards - did not look the same, at all, when stripped. But I applied that stain / linseed oil as he suggested - sloshed it on very liberally - kept it dripping wet at least 5 minutes, then rubbed hard to get most of the liquid off the wood - all that remained was what soaked in - idea was that you do NOT want any left on top of the wood. I hung the three pieces in my garage overnight - felt dry next morning - one of the hand guards much lighter - other one looked like the main stock - so, repeated with that diluted stain on that light coloured hand guard - it got darker to eventually match up with other wood. As per that acquaintance, is what using linseed oil does - a subsequent coat goes right through the first coat. I think once I had the colours correct, I switched to straight linseed oil - no more stain. I do recall maybe the last application was a few drops on finger for the entire stock and hand guards - bare skin, and rub really hard - to create some heat from friction. Would be "dry" next day - can re-coat then, until bored with doing that. Repeat in a month or in a year, apparently. Linseed is going to get darker with age - I did a several days soak on some NOS beech stocks for Lee Enfield No. 4 a few years ago - stocks and hand guards noticeably darker than when I quit playing with them - that rifle was just standing in cabinet over 4 or 5 years.
 
beltfed said:
I wouldn't use anything more than all natural turpentine.
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I would try that - where do you get that stuff? Do you use it as stripper or as finish? I had actually mixed that linseed oil 50-50 with turpentine to soak those No. 4 stocks - was not too anxious to heat the linseed oil, as I understand was done in WWII - I discovered it is very nearly impossible, out here, to find "pure" and "natural" turpentine or flax seed oil - every manufacturer seems to add "chit" to their product for one reason or other - usually to make it last longer on the shelf in the store.

Of note, perhaps - I had circa a gallon and half (6 litres or so) of that 50/50 linseed oil plus turpentine mixed up - was stored in a couple 4 litre milk jugs - after about a year I came out to garage to very strong turpentine smell - one of those jugs had developed a "crack" on it's bottom and the fluid in there had spread out over a shelf and across the floor - was quite a mess to clean up. That was NOT the original container, so was likely my fault to think I could "make do" and did not.
 
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