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if that was the truth I would have more than 1 box of the stuff I make it a point not to any .303 surplus as its not easy to come by anymore
WWII Ammo Info - British .303
- Thread starter sapper6fd
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if that was the truth I would have more than 1 box of the stuff I make it a point not to any .303 surplus as its not easy to come by anymore
Strictly speaking, Cordite is not a powder, but extruded rod, looking rather like uncooked spaghetti straight from the packaging. If you DO get into tearing down Cordite loaded ammunition, please be sure to wash your hands as soon as you have finished handling it. Remember that it is nothing more than another form of nitroglycerine, and will cause severe headaches as well as tachycardia, sweating, anxiety and other unpleasant symptoms. In WW1 soldiers wishing to goof off trench-time would chew a few sticks of the stuff, thereby simulating a heart attack, and get sent to the medics to get sorted out....
tac
Cordite and nitrocellulose were both used in rifles and machine guns. The Mark VII was approved for Land and Naval service in November 1910 and then also to Air service in May 1919. Mark VII.z was approved for Land service in May 1916. Land service would include both rifles and machine guns. I am not aware of any specification for nitrocellulose to be only used in machine guns.
TonyE or someone else in the know may want to weigh in with more details.
Regards.
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The erosion pattern in barrels is different n/c vs cordite. It was noted that ballistic performance with n/c deteriorated rapidly once the tipping point was passed. Cordite is more erosive, but degradation was more gradual; the service life of a machinegun barrel might be longer. Use of mixed types made loss of ballistic performance unpredictable.
This was important in Vickers guns, which were often used for overhead fire. If barrel erosion caused velocity variations, low shots could occur, very dangerous for overhead fire.
This was important in Vickers guns, which were often used for overhead fire. If barrel erosion caused velocity variations, low shots could occur, very dangerous for overhead fire.
And the MO might sort you out a little TOO well: eating Cordite was a serious LMF issue (Lack of Moral Fibre) and was regarded as equal to an SIW (Self Inflicted Wound). You could be executed for either. Saying that a person would "eat Cordite" is a blatant accusation of cowardice; somebody ever says it to you, you are justified in decking the SOB RFN.
Ed, we had the TWO big plants turning the stuff out for the military, plus the ammo coming from the commercial factory, the Dominion Cartridge Company. The GOVERNMENT plant was the Dominion Arsenal (headstamp DA) and they stuck to the British specification: big corrosive/mercuric Berdan primer, Cordite loading and all that. Their ammo also was marked in British style, with the Type Letter (W for AP, B for Incendiary, G for Tracer and all those) as a part of the headstamp.
Defence Industries turned out the "generic" ammo, billions of rounds of it, all loaded with an IMR-type powder and with the smaller (.210") Boxer NCNM primers. This is where we started using bullet-tip colour codes ( as in US practice) for our Specials (anything other than Ball ammo), although our code was NOT the same as the US code. I have encountered orange, red, white and gray tips; NO tip code was Ball, pure and simple.
So the answer is "Yes": we did make both types of .303 ammo: Cordite and Extruded, corrosive and non, mercuric and non and they are easy to tell apart. DA stamp and big primer is the Cordite/corrosive stuff, DI stamp and regular primer is the NCNM. The "Z" in the headstamp is the POWDER CODE: C for Cordite, Z for extruded IMR-type (actually based on Nobel Neonite as it was made here).
Surplus powder of the type used in the DI ammo was sold by Higginson Powders into the 1980s as their Number 44 Powder. I had some and it was wonderful stuff although it flashed terribly with lightweight bullets; get the bullet weight up over 165 grains and the flash went away and your ammo was amazingly accurate if you did your end right. This is the powder with which my Ross started shooting single-ragged-hole groups off the sandbags. WISH I could source a few pounds more of the same stuff today! Oh well, we have IMR 4895 and 35 grains of that in the Ross, or 37 to 38 in the SMLE, gives just bout the same results in a good rifle with the Sierra 180 seated to the OAL of a Ball round (3.05").
Also, Ed, the US had a big batch of NCNM .30-06 that was made in Canada: headstamp VC 45. It was the only NCNM .30-'06 military ammo of World War II.
Hope this helps.
BTW, anyone have a DI-41 for sale or trade, any type? I have both 42s, 43, 44 and 45 and it would be nice to complete the set at last.
Ed, we had the TWO big plants turning the stuff out for the military, plus the ammo coming from the commercial factory, the Dominion Cartridge Company. The GOVERNMENT plant was the Dominion Arsenal (headstamp DA) and they stuck to the British specification: big corrosive/mercuric Berdan primer, Cordite loading and all that. Their ammo also was marked in British style, with the Type Letter (W for AP, B for Incendiary, G for Tracer and all those) as a part of the headstamp.
Defence Industries turned out the "generic" ammo, billions of rounds of it, all loaded with an IMR-type powder and with the smaller (.210") Boxer NCNM primers. This is where we started using bullet-tip colour codes ( as in US practice) for our Specials (anything other than Ball ammo), although our code was NOT the same as the US code. I have encountered orange, red, white and gray tips; NO tip code was Ball, pure and simple.
So the answer is "Yes": we did make both types of .303 ammo: Cordite and Extruded, corrosive and non, mercuric and non and they are easy to tell apart. DA stamp and big primer is the Cordite/corrosive stuff, DI stamp and regular primer is the NCNM. The "Z" in the headstamp is the POWDER CODE: C for Cordite, Z for extruded IMR-type (actually based on Nobel Neonite as it was made here).
Surplus powder of the type used in the DI ammo was sold by Higginson Powders into the 1980s as their Number 44 Powder. I had some and it was wonderful stuff although it flashed terribly with lightweight bullets; get the bullet weight up over 165 grains and the flash went away and your ammo was amazingly accurate if you did your end right. This is the powder with which my Ross started shooting single-ragged-hole groups off the sandbags. WISH I could source a few pounds more of the same stuff today! Oh well, we have IMR 4895 and 35 grains of that in the Ross, or 37 to 38 in the SMLE, gives just bout the same results in a good rifle with the Sierra 180 seated to the OAL of a Ball round (3.05").
Also, Ed, the US had a big batch of NCNM .30-06 that was made in Canada: headstamp VC 45. It was the only NCNM .30-'06 military ammo of World War II.
Hope this helps.
BTW, anyone have a DI-41 for sale or trade, any type? I have both 42s, 43, 44 and 45 and it would be nice to complete the set at last.
"...may not fire..." Depends on how it was stored. Most likely to be just fine. Absolutely fabulous ammo. Best I ever fired when it was 40 some years old. I'd shoot it. It doesn't really have a lot of collector value. Yet.
"replica of the 1,000,000,000th' Geez, whoever made that was really desparate.
"replica of the 1,000,000,000th' Geez, whoever made that was really desparate.
I think you are getting confused between Ball Mark VIIz and Ball Mark VIIIz. Mark VIIz was suitable for both rifles and machine guns whilst Ball Mark VIIIz was designed for Vickers guns and should not be mixed with cordite loaded rounds in the same barrel.
With repect to the Three Rivers plant, this was set up to manufacture .50 Vickers ammo for the merchant marine, as they were receiving obsolete Vickers mountings for AA use. The .5 Vickers had been replaced in the navy by the 20mm oerlikon and 40mm Bofors. Later, TR switched over to 20mm Oerlikon ammo production.
I cannot speak for Canada, but here in the UK TR rounds are very hard to find, although I do have a couple. They used a universal headstamp or "44 TR" and produced some non standard loadings such as Armour-piercing incendiary tracer. Identification was by coloured bullet tips. (I hasten to add that these are not al mine!)
Regards
TonyE
