XCR-L vs M10X - Better 7.62x39 high level gun

pgiuseppe

pgiuseppe

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Since years I use the XCR-L in 7.62x39, and I do love the gun. The only issue is with the AR15 style Mags
Since the m10x came out I'm intrigued, so I tried to update my initial evaluation:
Comparison.png


Not sure about accuracy, recoil and so on for the M10X.
Has anyone experience with both platforms?
 
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I had an M10X and could not sell it fast enough. I bought it in spite of all the trash talk at the time... thinking cant be that bad. I was wrong.

Accuracy was shameful, disgusting.... or embarrassing... not sure which is more appropriate. Probably all will apply.

Honestly tested about 5 kinds of ammo over about 3 months and groups varied at 100 meters anywhere from 12 to 24 inches from a bench. At first I though there was something wrong with my scope, but the scope was fine.

Its not like I had a bad M10x either.

I saw a guy at the range with one a few weeks back and he had similar results. This was after he sent it back for this problem and it was returned to him with "problem solved"... Basically you couldn't use it to fight your way out of a phone booth.

And forget hunting with it, at best you would wound the animal.


Bottom line... go with the XCR.

It's a shame though because the M10X seems like a decent rifle. If you look back to the dietribe of negativity over the companies introduction to Canada you will find an onslaught of what seems to be unwarranted bias against the company.

But when they introduced such a pathetic representation of what should have been a formidable offering, the manufacturers lack of credibility was confirmed in my opinion.

If you are willing to risk it and buy one in spite of the above, shoot it before you buy it. Make sure it actually shoots to your expectations. If it doesn't, it's not you.
 
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My XCR 7.62x39 hasn't missed a beat. I only use pistol mags in it and have had no feeding issues. Based on my rifles performance I have had no desire to sell it and switch platforms.

My only wish is that it wasn't the quad rail model.
 
I own a good variety of different 7.62x39 mags and I have tested them on 8 XCR-L over the years. Not happy with the results if you use them in a rapid fire situation. For comparison the CZ mags never fail. This is why I was interested in the reliability of the M10x
 
Stanag-pattern mags will never be as reliable as AK-type mags in 7.62x39. They work not that bad for 5 rounds though. Limitation of magwell and the need for straight walls shape. The only rifle that has good conversion results is MGI Hydra (and available in Canada), they implemented removable magwell. So when you change caliber you replace BCG, barrel and mag well. That's a brilliant idea, I wish XCR or ARTS MS had this, they would add a lot of customers.

RMCS-3-Rifle-Kit-Web-med.png
 
VancouverS4 said:
what's wrong with the STANAG patter 7.62x39 mags? I prefer having the option of running a pistol mag in that calibre.
Click to expand...

7.62x39 by its case design favours a constant curvature mag to feed reliably consistantly. Xcr 10 round pistol mags or any stanag pattern mags are straight walled for the first few inches. Not a good combo.
 
For your consideration, Range Warrior Accessories in Calgary makes their RWA-180B rifle in 7.62x39 mm It uses their own AR-180 based upper with a NoDAK Spud lower. In another thread, they said they had been using the XCR Pistol mags without issue; though they did not mention rapid fire testing, I'm pretty sure the good ole' boys there would have fired a few clips through with alacrity. They use match-grade IBI barrels, so I think they would fare well in an accuracy comparison.

They also make a version of their 7.62 upper for the the WK180-C, should you have that gun already and want to save some money. If Wolverine and Kodiak ever get around to making their own 7.62 WK181-C, you could mate the RWA upper with a lower capable of using AK magazines.
 
pgiuseppe said:
Since years I use the XCR-L in 7.62x39, and I do love the gun. The only issue is with the AR15 style Mags
Since the m10x came out I'm intrigued, so I tried to update my initial evaluation:
Comparison.png


Not sure about accuracy, recoil and so on for the M10X.
Has anyone experience with both platforms?
Click to expand...

I do enjoy comparing guns like this aswell! But in my opinion your graph is totally out of wack. I cant speak for the mini 30, XCR or M10x. But if u substitute the CZ for a VZ instead, VZ gets:

++ for accuracy ( gun gets like 1.5 moa or better 5 shot groups with SST! )

++ for ergonomics (only feature it lacks is a bolt release, which can be solved for 80 bucks)

+ for recoil (would get ++ but because of its balance point and low set buttstock the platform is quite jumpy)

++ for mag (ya sure it doesnt hold 10rnds, BUT its light weight, weather resistant, affordable, plentiful and enables a last round hold open.... by 7.62x39 guns go thats pretty decent)

0 for price of a VZ ( 1300 puts it just high of midpoint on the price spectrum for NR 7.62x39 guns

Weight = 0 ??? Really? The VZ is about as balanced and light as it gets ..... i say ++ for that.

++ for modularity (u can modify and customize VZ ALOT)
 
Murray 3-D said:
I do enjoy comparing guns like this aswell! But in my opinion your graph is totally out of wack. I cant speak for the mini 30, XCR or M10x. But if u substitute the CZ for a VZ instead, VZ gets:
Click to expand...
thank you for the feedback. evaluations are subject to opinion. For the sake of clarity:
- Evaluation: is based on the STOCK version, not on after market enhancements
- Accuracy: 1.5 MOA good enough not exceptional IMHO
- ergonomics : I'm left handed, the CZ standard safety, mag release and so on is a pain, Stock is also not adjustable in length
- Mag: got a plus because is not dropping free
- Price: is 5 times more expensive than the SKS, still got a plus

not trying to convince anyone here, only explaining the reasoning.
 
pgiuseppe said:
thank you for the feedback. evaluations are subject to opinion. For the sake of clarity:
- Evaluation: is based on the STOCK version, not on after market enhancements
- Accuracy: 1.5 MOA good enough not exceptional IMHO
- ergonomics : I'm left handed, the CZ standard safety, mag release and so on is a pain, Stock is also not adjustable in length
- Mag: got a plus because is not dropping free
- Price: is 5 times more expensive than the SKS, still got a plus

not trying to convince anyone here, only explaining the reasoning.
Click to expand...

1.5 moa out of a 7.62x39 pattern gat is outstanding. Its good but not mind blowing in a 308 or 556 pattern but substantially better than the 4-10moa other combloc/m10x puts out.

Vz mags may not drop free but neither does the mini nor does the ak mags. Kinda how rock and lock mags roll. And the xcr mags are nowhere near the reliability of vz mags.

If the m10x was about 500 less with a lighter barrel amd had some of the performance issues resolved it would be a stellar buy. As it sits the best cost effective option is the vz/cz. Not that it doesnt have its pitfalls with lack of flattop rail and limited handguard space to name a few.
 
Lightly used XCRs are 1800-2200 on EE. At that price it is the best NR rifle ever.

3-4 MOA is an acceptable military standard BTW. Reliability is more important.

The only trouble I had on XCR (2014 model) is stupid plastic spring in the extractor. Which got dissolved by solvents eventually and failed on me at the range. Wolverine sells now a replacement - two metal springs and a new detent. So support from them for XCR vs North Sylva for m10x.

On the other hand M10x is just fine.

All that said, my CSA Vz58 is the one I use the most and the only rifle i had zero failures of any kind in like 2000 rounds.
 
BlackVoid said:
Lightly used XCRs are 1800-2200 on EE. At that price it is the best NR rifle ever.

3-4 MOA is an acceptable military standard BTW. Reliability is more important.

The only trouble I had on XCR (2014 model) is stupid plastic spring in the extractor. Which got dissolved by solvents eventually and failed on me at the range. Wolverine sells now a replacement - two metal springs and a new detent. So support from them for XCR vs North Sylva for m10x.

On the other hand M10x is just fine.

All that said, my CSA Vz58 is the one I use the most and the only rifle i had zero failures of any kind in like 2000 rounds.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you BlackVoid: I do love the XCR: design, ergonomics, support and how it's easy to clean. However the reliability of the CZ is superior.
the initial question of this discussion was: how good is the reliability of the M10x ?
 
Maple57 said:
I had an M10X and could not sell it fast enough. I bought it in spite of all the trash talk at the time... thinking cant be that bad. I was wrong.

Accuracy was shameful, disgusting.... or embarrassing... not sure which is more appropriate. Probably all will apply.

Honestly tested about 5 kinds of ammo over about 3 months and groups varied at 100 meters anywhere from 12 to 24 inches from a bench. At first I though there was something wrong with my scope, but the scope was fine.

Its not like I had a bad M10x either.

I saw a guy at the range with one a few weeks back and he had similar results. This was after he sent it back for this problem and it was returned to him with "problem solved"... Basically you couldn't use it to fight your way out of a phone booth.

And forget hunting with it, at best you would wound the animal.


Bottom line... go with the XCR.

It's a shame though because the M10X seems like a decent rifle. If you look back to the dietribe of negativity over the companies introduction to Canada you will find an onslaught of what seems to be unwarranted bias against the company.

But when they introduced such a pathetic representation of what should have been a formidable offering, the manufacturers lack of credibility was confirmed in my opinion.

If you are willing to risk it and buy one in spite of the above, shoot it before you buy it. Make sure it actually shoots to your expectations. If it doesn't, it's not you.
Click to expand...

12-24" at 100m? Is that even possible? There must have been something really wrong with that particular firearm...
 
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