XCR match barrel?
- Thread starter vultr
- Start date
If swapping to a better quality barrel was all that was needed to solve the issue the retention method creates many would have already done it via the aftermarket.
The ACR has been available for much less time and people already have swapped barrels to take advantage of the potential gain in accuracy with a quality barrel, but it does not suffer from the same retention issue the Xcr does
The ACR has been available for much less time and people already have swapped barrels to take advantage of the potential gain in accuracy with a quality barrel, but it does not suffer from the same retention issue the Xcr does
If you want to accurize an XCR, there more to it than replacing the barrel.
Everybody has already said it, barrel retention is the weakest link. Any production barrel will be the same. You'll have a match barrel in the same extension already being used, held to the upper with a quick change design.
You ever had a group that you couldn't explain the 3" flyer? It wasn't you!
If it's not happening, it will. The more you shoot, the looser she'll get, including barrel retention.
Problem 2 is the fit between upper and lower. Same as above, it wears. Mine was pretty tight when new, but didn't take long, now it's a rattle bucket, sounds like a movie gun. I've heard of someone re-bushing the front, but that's only half way there.
I believe the trigger is up to the task. Mine is fantastic, she wore in good.
If I were going to install a match barrel, I'd have to consider bonding it to the upper and bushing the front pin. Then I'd use 2 dowels in the back, making for a solid fit.
I have a fair bit of experience with an XCR or 2 and I've thought it through, but I can't bring myself to do it. Always waiting for someone else to do it first and tell me it's worth it
.
I'll be waiting.
Everybody has already said it, barrel retention is the weakest link. Any production barrel will be the same. You'll have a match barrel in the same extension already being used, held to the upper with a quick change design.
You ever had a group that you couldn't explain the 3" flyer? It wasn't you!
If it's not happening, it will. The more you shoot, the looser she'll get, including barrel retention.
Problem 2 is the fit between upper and lower. Same as above, it wears. Mine was pretty tight when new, but didn't take long, now it's a rattle bucket, sounds like a movie gun. I've heard of someone re-bushing the front, but that's only half way there.
I believe the trigger is up to the task. Mine is fantastic, she wore in good.
If I were going to install a match barrel, I'd have to consider bonding it to the upper and bushing the front pin. Then I'd use 2 dowels in the back, making for a solid fit.
I have a fair bit of experience with an XCR or 2 and I've thought it through, but I can't bring myself to do it. Always waiting for someone else to do it first and tell me it's worth it
. I'll be waiting.
If you want to accurize an XCR, there more to it than replacing the barrel.
Everybody has already said it, barrel retention is the weakest link. Any production barrel will be the same. You'll have a match barrel in the same extension already being used, held to the upper with a quick change design.
You ever had a group that you couldn't explain the 3" flyer? It wasn't you!
If it's not happening, it will. The more you shoot, the looser she'll get, including barrel retention.
Problem 2 is the fit between upper and lower. Same as above, it wears. Mine was pretty tight when new, but didn't take long, now it's a rattle bucket, sounds like a movie gun. I've heard of someone re-bushing the front, but that's only half way there.
I believe the trigger is up to the task. Mine is fantastic, she wore in good.
If I were going to install a match barrel, I'd have to consider bonding it to the upper and bushing the front pin. Then I'd use 2 dowels in the back, making for a solid fit.
I have a fair bit of experience with an XCR or 2 and I've thought it through, but I can't bring myself to do it. Always waiting for someone else to do it first and tell me it's worth it
I'll be waiting.
I've never had any issues with barrel retention or bolts backing out. I do use blue threadlocker liberally, and that thankfully seems to do the trick.
As I mentioned in my OP, I was speaking recently with RA specifically with respect to the exact issue you mentioned. I would have a 3 great (ie sub MOA) shots in a 5 round group with 2 bizarre fliers that would open the group up significantly. This pattern repeated itself regardless of ammo type. After a burning through a pile of fancy (ie expensive) rack ammo I figured I would give the warranty dept a call.
I have to say, despite the reputation, the customer service was awesome. I was put through to a human right away who spent a fair amount of time trying to help me out. I don't claim to be an expert, and any error in the information I'm passing along is probably my own failure to explain it properly. Apparently the tolerances on the gas system on a number of the gen 1 rifles were not up to par. A number of components needed to be gauged and upsized (replaced) to reduce play in the system in order to achieve consistent accuracy. I was promised that this would solve my issues. In my mind this would be similar to unitizing the gas system on an M1A/M14. I was told to ship my rifle to Wolverine, and that the work and parts would be covered.
The rifle is still out, but I'm cautiously optimistic that she will come back a much better shooter. YMMV. If it does look like this has solved my problem, I may consider the barrel upgrade.
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Considering we're civilians without full auto, you'd think if there is gains with a fixed/more solid barrel system, RA would dump the quick change feature - at least on some uppers.
They could sell them as 'DMRs'/'SPRs' to us civilians. Great marketing.
They could sell them as 'DMRs'/'SPRs' to us civilians. Great marketing.
which is fine until you want to switch calibers, then the fun begins.
It is a bad method of retention if you want to take advantage of the caliber change option. IF RA cared they would have fixed the issue and went with a different system long ago
F22_RaptoR
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The problem as stated; is the way the barrel locks into the receiver. It slides in and is held in place by essentially a big set screw from the bottom up.
This means any tolerances from the barrel to the upper can cause the barrel to vibrate just a bit different (magnified by the fact that it's a long stroke piston, so it's pulling the barrel around as it's cycling).
You could theoretically get a 'fitted' barrel extension which was tight in the receiver to the point where you have to gently tap it in with a rubber mallet, or some people have drilled and tapped holes in the sides for more 'set screws'.
I seriously thought about getting one and drilling through the side all the way through (just barely going through the barrel extension) and then using a binding-post/clamp type screw set to clamp the aluminum receiver around the barrel; just like how Geissele (and HK) secure their handguards to the barrel nut. It's a very strong system and retains the barrel in front/back as well as providing clamp force on the receiver.
HOWEVER, this would be a difficult thing to do, so I never bothered getting an XCR to try it on... And besides, I don't even know if there would be enough material on the barrel extension that you could safely make a cut through the bottom of it. Or if there is the right amount of material on the receiver.
This means any tolerances from the barrel to the upper can cause the barrel to vibrate just a bit different (magnified by the fact that it's a long stroke piston, so it's pulling the barrel around as it's cycling).
You could theoretically get a 'fitted' barrel extension which was tight in the receiver to the point where you have to gently tap it in with a rubber mallet, or some people have drilled and tapped holes in the sides for more 'set screws'.
I seriously thought about getting one and drilling through the side all the way through (just barely going through the barrel extension) and then using a binding-post/clamp type screw set to clamp the aluminum receiver around the barrel; just like how Geissele (and HK) secure their handguards to the barrel nut. It's a very strong system and retains the barrel in front/back as well as providing clamp force on the receiver.
HOWEVER, this would be a difficult thing to do, so I never bothered getting an XCR to try it on... And besides, I don't even know if there would be enough material on the barrel extension that you could safely make a cut through the bottom of it. Or if there is the right amount of material on the receiver.
I wouldn't waste my money on trying to accurize an XCR. My advice is to to enjoy your rifle the way it is and accept that nothing you do short of permanently attaching the barrel to the receiver will make it something it was never designed to be. The XCR was meant to be an infantry rifle so it's very ergonomic, usually very reliable, and able to hit a man sized target out to around 400 meters most of the time. If you got one that shoots better than that you should be happy and just enjoy the fact that you own one of the best supported platforms on the market thanks to Wolverine.
If accuracy is your main concern then you need to look at having the barrel permanently attached by something like JB welding it in or something similar. For accuracy there are better platforms available.
If RA cared to change the rifle to more of a DMR type rifle they would change the barrel retention system to something more like what the ACR has or to have the receiver designed with a couple cross bolts that clamped the barrel in rather than a simple set screw to stop it from falling out.
The accuracy potential is why I've never owned an XCR, I've shot a few of them and they all left me wanting more.
Our expectations are a little unfair since these were never designed to be a DMR but they always end up being compared to an AR which when setup properly is one of the most accurate semi auto rifles available.
If you want accuracy but love your XCR then keep your XCR for play and general field use as it is accurate enough for coyote and deer hunting and then just buy a bolt action rifle for when you want to put all rounds into a tiny area.
A match barrel may bring your 3 nice shots closer together but chances are there will still be the 2 wild flyers that you don't think you pulled.
If accuracy is your main concern then you need to look at having the barrel permanently attached by something like JB welding it in or something similar. For accuracy there are better platforms available.
If RA cared to change the rifle to more of a DMR type rifle they would change the barrel retention system to something more like what the ACR has or to have the receiver designed with a couple cross bolts that clamped the barrel in rather than a simple set screw to stop it from falling out.
The accuracy potential is why I've never owned an XCR, I've shot a few of them and they all left me wanting more.
Our expectations are a little unfair since these were never designed to be a DMR but they always end up being compared to an AR which when setup properly is one of the most accurate semi auto rifles available.
If you want accuracy but love your XCR then keep your XCR for play and general field use as it is accurate enough for coyote and deer hunting and then just buy a bolt action rifle for when you want to put all rounds into a tiny area.
A match barrel may bring your 3 nice shots closer together but chances are there will still be the 2 wild flyers that you don't think you pulled.
That may be true, though honestly I'm planning on putting a BAD saber tube on the back and a light barrel on the front to improve balance and lighten the ol'girl up as much as possible. So if I'm getting a new front tube I might as well get a match one. Once again, that's dependent on me getting improved results from the gas system. Seems like everyone from the xcr forum who did that mod saw improvement from 2-3 moa (flier included) to moa ish. I also have zero interest in caliber changes unless they introduced something chambered in 7mm or bigger.
"I've never had any issues with barrel retention or bolts backing out. I do use blue threadlocker liberally, and that thankfully seems to do the trick. "
I've never needed or used thread lock on my barrel bolt.
The bolt is threaded to a helicoil, thread lock has no place on this helicoil. It's a sure way of pulling the coil out.
Clean threads and degrease, torque to spec.
I've used thread lock on the safety lever screw. It's the only screw to ever back out of my gun. I carry a tube of loctite in my pistol grip storage. Sort of an XCR joke.
Looking forward to see what comes of this. I'm considering a new complete upper, myself. If I go through with it, I'll bond my existing and see what happens.
I've never needed or used thread lock on my barrel bolt.
The bolt is threaded to a helicoil, thread lock has no place on this helicoil. It's a sure way of pulling the coil out.
Clean threads and degrease, torque to spec.
I've used thread lock on the safety lever screw. It's the only screw to ever back out of my gun. I carry a tube of loctite in my pistol grip storage. Sort of an XCR joke.
Looking forward to see what comes of this. I'm considering a new complete upper, myself. If I go through with it, I'll bond my existing and see what happens.
At the risk of repeating what's already been said,XCR was never intended to be a sub MOA match grade precision rifle,it was designed as a 2-3 MOA battle platform,which incidentally is totally acceptable for that application,and it's actually better then that.
Funny how so many gunnutz drool over minute of barn door AKs that they can't have,but need to poo poo on XCR because it's not .5moa out of the box,lol.
Funny how so many gunnutz drool over minute of barn door AKs that they can't have,but need to poo poo on XCR because it's not .5moa out of the box,lol.
Yes, they're the same. Lot's of complaints I don't understand why. Loose gas systems are the biggest issue from previous gens. Consistency in barrel retation isn't all that hard to achieve ... I think people just like to complain because of the price to perceived MOA performance.
I agree that people need to stop expecting a rifle to shoot moa or sub moa just because it costs $3000. There really is no correlation between retail cost and accuracy unless we are talking about precision bolt action rifles and even in that category there are exceptions.
The problem with the XCR's method of barrel retention when related to consist accuracy is that as it warms up things change between the barrel and receiver and that is why almost every XCR experiences flyers that can't usually be explained. The system works well enough for what it was designed for and for field use in Canada shooting varmints, coyotes, or deer but it will never be a benchrest long range precision tool
If someone wants a rifle to make sub moa groups the XCR is not the right choice. If on the other hand someone wants a rifle with great ergonomics and typically good reliability for general field duties in a platform that looks great and has incredible support from Wolverine then the XCR may be a great choice.
