XCR Opinions
- Thread starter lil_juiced_coupe
- Start date
A) I ignore the overwhelming majority of XCR threads because as a general rule I don't care. I occasionally comment that I think they are not up to the standards of any of the rifles issued by any first-world countries or major LE agencies. I generally do this in threads where somebody is talking about maybe buying one. I do it because if the criteria I just specified is important to that person, and to some people it is, I think it's helpful for them to hear that dissenting opinion. I believe I do this, on average, about four times a year. I do not troll the black rifle forum waiting for XCR threads...jesus.
B) So the manual states that if the gun is not working right because parts have come loose, the problem may be that the bolts backed off and this is rectified by using loctite?
How interesting. Let's go back and review:
Ebola:
You:
Manual on the subject of when to Loctite:
Two points have been proven here, then:
1) The manual does say to loctite the rifle if you're having certain types of problems, confirming Armedsask's statement that "it" (loctiting) is in the manual.
2) Any criticism of this rifle does immediately result in the claim that the critics are "haters". If you read through my posts in this thread, you will notice that the extent of the criticism I have made of the XCR is that it's not equal to issue rifles like, for example, the C8, or the 416. That, apparently, is enough to label me a "hater". What criticisms of the XCR are allowed, then? Nobody is supposed to say it's not up to the standards of a Colt M4, so what can we say? It's kind of front heavy, but other than that it's f**king superb and will suck you off like you wouldn't believe?
I'm sorry, not everybody is impressed with this rifle. That does not necessarily make us "haters". It is entirely possible to have a "meh" opinion of a gun without being a "hater".
It's funny, I have a friend with 6 ar's, and a stack of 20-30 mags. Only 2 rifles are reliable for him to even bother bringing out and he still declares them both in trustworthy in life or death and he'd take his sl8 over all of them but he loves my xcr. Sure it's front heavy but it runs 100%. Weird. Out of 8 rifles mine NEVER efs up. Hey by the way what's that thing you AR guys have to stake the bolts on? Oh yah the bolt carrier. How many times can you stake It before something is fubar? Wouldn't locktite fix the issue?
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
If it wasn't for the fact that the XCR was non-restricted, the affinity for it would be somewhat short-lived... I did get the chance to pick one up and fondle it a few weeks ago, and it felt surprisingly good in my hands (I was somewhat impressed with the fit and finish).
I will admit to being an AR-whore. I love the never-ending level of modification, and someday I'll finally arrive at the perfect build (for me anyway!) I think the SL8 is a better buy over the XCR, but I hate the stock on the SL8 - and it's another grand to complete a hybrid G36 - which puts you into the price range of a Tavor or FS2000. Then again, the XCR also needs the requisite adapter, grip and aftermarket stock as well.
Given the choice it would still either be an FS2000 or Tavor for me. The Swiss is great - I'm just not a big fan of the weight (nothing but great things to say about the rifle, though).
I will admit to being an AR-whore. I love the never-ending level of modification, and someday I'll finally arrive at the perfect build (for me anyway!) I think the SL8 is a better buy over the XCR, but I hate the stock on the SL8 - and it's another grand to complete a hybrid G36 - which puts you into the price range of a Tavor or FS2000. Then again, the XCR also needs the requisite adapter, grip and aftermarket stock as well.
Given the choice it would still either be an FS2000 or Tavor for me. The Swiss is great - I'm just not a big fan of the weight (nothing but great things to say about the rifle, though).
That.
A semi-auto non-restricted gun will always have it's fans. And a lot of those fans will be willing to excuse some short-comings or negative aspects of the gun, just because they are able to take it out in the bush.
While I'd like one for fun, I'd probably get the exact same usage otu of it as my AR's.
I had a Swiss Arms Black Special that I got because I could take it out to the farm and shoot coyotes with.
The only time I ever shot it was on the range. I got rid of it.
I own an XCR but I have to agree with many points misanthropist stated.
While I personally like the rifle, I do not see as the be all and end all of all black/green rifles.
I appreciate it's design and attempt to create something different and possibly better than the giant wave of AR15 rifles. I do not hate AR15's quite the opposite. Having owned quite a few and working on a AR build with my brother.
I like the XCR primarily because it is non-restricted. I think this feature is it's main feature in Canada. This is not to detract from the other features but this feature makes it more accessible and useable in greater areas.
The XCR has never independently proven itself like some of the rifles issued by some militaries. Could it be? Currently, I'm not convinced mainly because it is too new. I would say the same thing for the ACR as well. In the future? Maybe with more R & D and refinement. It took the AR a few decades and lots of tinkering by the Marines, US Army Marksmanship Unit, competitors and eventually companies before it really came into it's own. Remember all of the remarks making fun of the Mattel rifle, and the horror stories of it jamming in Vietnam where every soldier was found dead with a jammed M16.
Additionally, Robinson Armament is a small company. They do not have the capacity to produce and service the number of firearms required for a First World country or multiple large LE agencies.
Could a stock XCR go toe to toe with a stock MIL/LE Colt M4? I don't know. But, because the XCR is too new and the AR15 has since 1964 to further refine and develop.... I would hedge my bet to the MIL/LE Colt M4 for now.
misanthropist & armedsask are not wrong to voice their opinion and that fact that the XCR has not yet met the standards of other issued rifles. And as the OP was looking for XCR opinions it is fair to provide open and honest feedback and questions. Have some faith that the OP will look at both the pros and cons equally and decide for themselves.
I think any productive feedback concerning any product is crucial in the development and refinement of the product. The XCR and any firearm for that matter is no different. Adapt and evolve or die off.
My own XCR has had problems with rounds tipping up in LAR15 10 round magazines. If anyone knows a fix please let me know. I haven't had a problem yet with my PMags but the round count with PMags is only 500 rounds. A true test would take several thousand rounds... I'll let you guys know when I get there.
I'm still waiting for the improved XCR stock. Supposedly will be like the ACR stock, being that it will fold, adjustable LOP and have a adjustable cheek rest. I'll wait til I see it.
I personally would like to have XCR's that come with stainless steel light weight, match or maybe 223 wylde chambered, only threaded (choose your own FH/brake) and possibly fluted barrels.
If anything it is good that people have a choice of having a non-restricted or restricted black/green rifle. While I wish the AR15 was non-restricted it is not and I appreciate that there is alternative to address the situation.
While I personally like the rifle, I do not see as the be all and end all of all black/green rifles.
I appreciate it's design and attempt to create something different and possibly better than the giant wave of AR15 rifles. I do not hate AR15's quite the opposite. Having owned quite a few and working on a AR build with my brother.
I like the XCR primarily because it is non-restricted. I think this feature is it's main feature in Canada. This is not to detract from the other features but this feature makes it more accessible and useable in greater areas.
The XCR has never independently proven itself like some of the rifles issued by some militaries. Could it be? Currently, I'm not convinced mainly because it is too new. I would say the same thing for the ACR as well. In the future? Maybe with more R & D and refinement. It took the AR a few decades and lots of tinkering by the Marines, US Army Marksmanship Unit, competitors and eventually companies before it really came into it's own. Remember all of the remarks making fun of the Mattel rifle, and the horror stories of it jamming in Vietnam where every soldier was found dead with a jammed M16.
Additionally, Robinson Armament is a small company. They do not have the capacity to produce and service the number of firearms required for a First World country or multiple large LE agencies.
Could a stock XCR go toe to toe with a stock MIL/LE Colt M4? I don't know. But, because the XCR is too new and the AR15 has since 1964 to further refine and develop.... I would hedge my bet to the MIL/LE Colt M4 for now.
misanthropist & armedsask are not wrong to voice their opinion and that fact that the XCR has not yet met the standards of other issued rifles. And as the OP was looking for XCR opinions it is fair to provide open and honest feedback and questions. Have some faith that the OP will look at both the pros and cons equally and decide for themselves.
I think any productive feedback concerning any product is crucial in the development and refinement of the product. The XCR and any firearm for that matter is no different. Adapt and evolve or die off.
My own XCR has had problems with rounds tipping up in LAR15 10 round magazines. If anyone knows a fix please let me know. I haven't had a problem yet with my PMags but the round count with PMags is only 500 rounds. A true test would take several thousand rounds... I'll let you guys know when I get there.
I'm still waiting for the improved XCR stock. Supposedly will be like the ACR stock, being that it will fold, adjustable LOP and have a adjustable cheek rest. I'll wait til I see it.
I personally would like to have XCR's that come with stainless steel light weight, match or maybe 223 wylde chambered, only threaded (choose your own FH/brake) and possibly fluted barrels.
If anything it is good that people have a choice of having a non-restricted or restricted black/green rifle. While I wish the AR15 was non-restricted it is not and I appreciate that there is alternative to address the situation.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Actually, it should be comparable to the price of a Swiss Arms - so it's not that unrealistic. 18.6" stainless steel match in .223 Wydle with 1:8 twist is going to completely change the dynamics of this gun! (and I believe it will be slightly less weight than the 16.5" factory heavy profile one)
I hate when he does that! (In a good way)
Now that is all going to thinking about now!
How would the balance be with the real (collapsible/folding/adjustable cheek piece) stock? Hhhmmmmm....
Back on topic on the XCR.
I would like to see how the XCR runs in a 3 gun or multigun match States Side. I know someone in Canada won a 3 gun match with it but the matches in the states are probably a much harder and better overall test.
I'm hoping to take my XCR for a carbine course at some point and try to torture and push it to some extremes.
Like the AR180B. If it was restricted, I wouldn't touch the thing with your 10 foot pole, and we all know how much I like that rifle.
Then again, I don't go around telling people it's the greatest combat rifle design ever invented. I know what it is and what its capabilities are.
What the manual says is that if you remove the brass deflector you MAY loctite it when replacing it. If doing so, you are instructed to use a particular type.
As for the hater characterization, there is no other conclusion which explains the level of vitriol. There are literally hundreds of AR-15 threads. You would have to look long and hard to find threads expressing anywhere near the level of 'criticism' faced by the XCR in even ONE of those threads. This is despite the fact that the AR actually has quite a few design choices which can best be charitably described as poor. Moreover, the amount of money spent customizing AR's to overcome those design choices are never described in terms of 'flaws' with the original rifle. The XCR is singled out by a relatively few people whose opinions pollute virtually every thread. ArmedSask is by far the worst offender in this regard, but there are others. I have NO PROBLEM with criticism, but we cannot even have a single thread without the irrational hatred for this rifle being expressed. If you like the AR or the swiss arms, more power to you, but leave the XCR threads alone.
The malfunction matrix lists three possible causes for two malfunctions. It suggests three possible fixes, one of which may be to use loctite. It does not suggest that you HAVE to loctite anything. It merely suggests that if you have this type of malfunction (without saying how common it is), that locktite might help fix it if the other two fixes are not applicable.
The construction of the original statement "i have read that some people will have to lokitite their xcr back togther as some stuff will fall off of it with some use" implies that prior to use the rifle must be disassembled and then re-assembled with loctite, something that the haters, like yourself, commonly repeat in threads related to the XCR. This is patently untrue, thus my comment.
And I wouldn't touch non-restricted AR180B/SL8/Swiss Arms etc etc etc they feel like crap for me I purchased my XCR-L because it was the only rifle of this style that has ever felt right too me.
I also don't spew that an XCR-L is anything but what it is = in my case anyway is perfect for what I was looking for.
Just like my modified 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM is perfect for my needs only people that truly appreciate it are the people that understand it and can shoot it without flinching the rest spew against it and praise a far lesser rifle/cartridge/performance combo that I moved beyond years ago...
I also don't spew that an XCR-L is anything but what it is = in my case anyway is perfect for what I was looking for.
Just like my modified 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM is perfect for my needs only people that truly appreciate it are the people that understand it and can shoot it without flinching the rest spew against it and praise a far lesser rifle/cartridge/performance combo that I moved beyond years ago...
And I wouldn't touch non-restricted AR180B/SL8/Swiss Arms etc etc etc they feel like crap for me I purchased my XCR-L because it was the only rifle of this style that has ever felt right too me.
I also don't spew that an XCR-L is anything but what it is = in my case anyway is perfect for what I was looking for.
Just like my modified 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM is perfect for my needs only people that truly appreciate it are the people that understand it and can shoot it without flinching the rest spew against it and praise a far lesser rifle/cartridge/performance combo that I moved beyond years ago...
I also bought an XCR after a lengthy analysis but would switch to Swiss Arms Classic Green if I had the money. I've shot the rifle extensively years ago at St-Basile-Le-Grand army shooting range with Quebec Swiss Club (almost 15 years ago) and it's an excellent rifle. It's tough, reliable, very accurate and way too expensive for me!
XCR rocks but the Swiss Arms Classic Green rifle is a fantastic rifle,
Alex
- Location
- 54°52'56"N 112°10'7"W Alpha Bravo
I dont know why Paul is in such a huff, reading through this thread I would say all answers in regards to the XCR (good or bad) have been both logical and respectful.
There's the big problem. Calm, logical discussion is meet with disproportionate "defense" by a select few tossing around the "hater" term.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
My reasoning behind not purchasing the xcr.
1) Lack of hard evidence proving it quality, although CGN is a great resource for information there are many more out there supporting the lack of quality compared to other products..
2)when I held one it felt like poop in my hand
3) I read a post from Mr. Robinson about his customer service policies and was less then impressed.
1) Lack of hard evidence proving it quality, although CGN is a great resource for information there are many more out there supporting the lack of quality compared to other products..
2)when I held one it felt like poop in my hand
3) I read a post from Mr. Robinson about his customer service policies and was less then impressed.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I wouldn't necessarily describe the AR design as 'poor' but rather, dated. The fact that you can still customize the AR to the degree possible to overcome these 'design choices' is in fact a testament to the original design itself. In fact, manufacturers such as HK, Knight, LWRC, etc. are probably producing some of the most innovative AR designs out there right now.
If you look at the next generation ARs (ACR, SCAR, ARX) they put forward all the benefits of the AR platform while at the same addressing many (if not all) of the shortcomings. In fact, 2/3 are in active service - something that cannot necessarily be said for the XCR.
I'll simply reiterate that if it were not for the non-restricted status of the XCR (and similarly, the restricted status of the AR), this whole discussion would be moot.
