yes or no..Glock or Colt 1911- which has the better service life???

[misanthropist]

1) the 1911 grip is about 4mm longer than a full-size glock grip, but the baseplates of Glock mags stick down about another 3 mm.

If 1911 grips work for you, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to get plenty of purchase on any full-size Glock. I have big hands myself and I have no issues firing mid-sized Glocks. They soak up recoil pretty effectively so you shouldn't have a hard time mitigating the tendency of the gun to jump off target, which is the only real issue with a shorter grip.

2) The grip angle on Glocks is not ideal, but the fix is easy...don't point them at the ground. Natural grip angle is all a matter of what you're using a lot. If you primarily use Glocks, 1911s will point high until you get back in the habit of using them.

I grew up shooting 1911s, and after just a few thousand rounds through Glocks, I found that my muscles had completely adapted. I would guess anyone who puts, say, five thousand rounds through guns with a Glock shape will be 100% tuned for Glocks. So shoot them for a year or two and you will be fine.

 

[TDC]

I love the 1911.. i own a 1911.. my 1st gun was a 1911.. but polymer IS the future.
here are my problems with the glock..

if you can mold plastic into shapes you couldn't hope to get out of metal.. why oh why are they so damn fugly and NOT ergonomic AND SOOOOOOO small?

my natural pointing angle lends me to an almost 45 degree grip

I have big hands and can barely get my baby finger to NOT hang off the bottom of any of these polymer guns.. (some are ring finger and baby finger!!)..
my buddy's Walther is a microscopic kids TOY even with the big grip pad, glock 22 = similar

POLYMER IS THE FUTURE.. so far the future is for tiny handed guys who like shooting at the ground.

1911 double stack.. i change my vote

The grip angle on a Glock is 110' the same angle used on a 1911. The difference is in the contoured "swell" at the bottom of the grip. For the ignorant, they say that this makes the gun "FEEL" wrong. We've already established that "feel" has nothing to do with performance or reliability. As for your finger hanging off the bottom, I call BS. If your little finger hangs off the bottom of a full size Glock, that means your middle and ring fingers will be approximately 1.5x larger than the average joe. This also means your fingers would be riding atop the ridges that separate the finger grooves. If you're referring to the compact and subcompact Glocks, your little finger could very well hang off the bottom(mine does). Get over it, its part of running a compact or sub compact pistol. Comfort is not a relevant factor and nor is the aesthetic appeal. ITS A TOOL NOT A MANTLE PIECE.

TDC

 

[bearkilr]

In my experience that is not actually true. Most people shoot best with heavy guns with light triggers, and "feel" is practically irrelevant.

LE and Mil units have adopted Glocks in part because they are cheap to buy, but more importantly because they are cheap to maintain, because they don't require $500 in parts and labour per year of service like a 1911 will if it's being shot.

And most importantly, of course, because they work.

Heavy gun and light trigger are certainly not words that come to mind when describing a Glock.

Let's not forget that most LE and military personnel are issued guns. They don't get to choose their weapon for the most part. I suspect many would choose a 1911 in 45 over the Glock, given the choice.

No doubt they work as advertised in a combat situation, which has been proven many times over. They're the Toyota Camry of handguns. Plain, boring and reliable.

S&W only had 25 years to copy the Glock and fix any issues with them. As posted, they(S&W) have yet to achieve that goal.

TDC

The Glock has issues !!! Please, do tell........

 

[kazzxtrismus]

The grip angle on a Glock is 110' the same angle used on a 1911. The difference is in the contoured "swell" at the bottom of the grip. For the ignorant, they say that this makes the gun "FEEL" wrong. We've already established that "feel" has nothing to do with performance or reliability. As for your finger hanging off the bottom, I call BS. If your little finger hangs off the bottom of a full size Glock, that means your middle and ring fingers will be approximately 1.5x larger than the average joe. This also means your fingers would be riding atop the ridges that separate the finger grooves. If you're referring to the compact and subcompact Glocks, your little finger could very well hang off the bottom(mine does). Get over it, its part of running a compact or sub compact pistol. Comfort is not a relevant factor and nor is the aesthetic appeal. ITS A TOOL NOT A MANTLE PIECE.

TDC

my wedding ring is custom made to have a 7/8" (ring size 13.5) inside diameter and my ideal grip length would be 4 3/8".. requiring 2 3/8" below the trigger guard.

i also stated that even my 1911 is a little lacking in both length and angle.

i dont know if a glock 22 is the large frame or not but it is small.. nor have i tried the grip extension for the mags.

i know its a tool.. thats why i use the right size socket on a nut.

my buddy's Walther p99 (9mm) is absolutely tiny

 

[TDC]

Heavy gun and light trigger are certainly not words that come to mind when describing a Glock.

Let's not forget that most LE and military personnel are issued guns. They don't get to choose their weapon for the most part. I suspect many would choose a 1911 in 45 over the Glock, given the choice.

No doubt they work as advertised in a combat situation, which has been proven many times over. They're the Toyota Camry of handguns. Plain, boring and reliable.


The Glock has issues !!! Please, do tell........

Again, another ignorant excuse used to explain away Glock's popularity. Many units have selected the Glock as opposed to being stuck with the Glock. Regardless, the fact that it is the most prolific handgun in service is not a result of cheap prices which is how many come to the conclusion that LE/MIL are stuck with an issued Glock. I would like to hear the reasons behind why a 1911 is a better choice? If you start with the term "stopping power" you need to stop there as well, its a myth.

my wedding ring is custom made to have a 7/8" (ring size 13.5) inside diameter and my ideal grip length would be 4 3/8".. requiring 2 3/8" below the trigger guard.

i also stated that even my 1911 is a little lacking in both length and angle.

i dont know if a glock 22 is the large frame or not but it is small.. nor have i tried the grip extension for the mags.

i know its a tool.. thats why i use the right size socket on a nut.

my buddy's Walther p99 (9mm) is absolutely tiny

You aren't the only guy with large hands who shoots. That being said, I suspect you're in the minority that most items aren't designed for. You may be forced to run another brand or forced to deal with the problem.

TDC

 

[kazzxtrismus]

i went cz + magwell for angle + grip length.

I dont think glocks suck.. they are just not good for me.. nor do they magically stop rainy days... like some would have you believe.

will you actually break either so badly to need a new 1.. most likely not.

is their any logically, proven, reasonable, really good reason for EVERYONE to pick the same 1 over the other?... NO... its taste...

in this country the value of a good handgun has been left mostly to aesthetics, because we have no concealed carry.

if you want to shoot a lot (1000+rds/week) you wouldn't without a small kit of spare parts for ANY gun you chose.

and any HIGH precision target shooter will not be using ANY standard off the shelf NON-cu$tomised / modified entry level ( read either cheap or low $) pistol for very long.

try it, like it, buy it... you are the only variable

 

[timoram]

There is only one right answer to this questions and it is.....

Pick the one you like/works for you!

I don't know why people have to argue which is better or who uses what or how one will never fail. Who cares. A handgun to a legal gun owner in Canada is no more than a toy/show piece for 99% of the owners.

 

[bearkilr]

Again, another ignorant excuse used to explain away Glock's popularity. Many units have selected the Glock as opposed to being stuck with the Glock. Regardless, the fact that it is the most prolific handgun in service is not a result of cheap prices which is how many come to the conclusion that LE/MIL are stuck with an issued Glock. I would like to hear the reasons behind why a 1911 is a better choice? If you start with the term "stopping power" you need to stop there as well, its a myth.

I'm sure your evidence of the Glock's reigning superiority over all other makes is based solely on an illustrious career scouring the internet and perhaps competing in war games.

Seeing as my ignorance in regard to time spent with a pistol in service is probably equal to yours, let's just agree to disagree.

 

[TDC]

I'm sure your evidence of the Glock's reigning superiority over all other makes is based solely on an illustrious career scouring the internet and perhaps competing in war games.

Seeing as my ignorance in regard to time spent with a pistol in service is probably equal to yours, let's just agree to disagree.

you don't have to serve to understand the supremacy of a design or the logic behind it. In fact, I would say most who serve could really care less about the tools they use so long as they work. To assume someone who's served would/should know more about their gear than someone who hasn't is a very large presumption.

TDC

 

[Starscream]

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5837398&postcount=63

Link to source? My google-fu isn't turning up anything and I'm finding no mention of those problems or a Taiwan contract in http://mp-pistol.com/boards/.

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&q=M%26P+pistol+taiwan&oq=M%26P+pistol+taiwan

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&q=M%26P+pistol+extractor+40+in+9mm

 

[misanthropist]

I can't give you an internet source...I didn't read it on the internet. One of the people involved with the transaction related the details to me in person.

 

[misanthropist]

Heavy gun and light trigger are certainly not words that come to mind when describing a Glock.

Let's not forget that most LE and military personnel are issued guns. They don't get to choose their weapon for the most part. I suspect many would choose a 1911 in 45 over the Glock, given the choice.

No doubt they work as advertised in a combat situation, which has been proven many times over. They're the Toyota Camry of handguns. Plain, boring and reliable.

A heavier gun is always more accurate and easier to shoot, but that is not the only deciding factor, as I assume you can figure out on your own. A light trigger is easier to shoot, but if you think a 1 pound trigger is a good idea in a fighting gun...well, again I would say you can probably figure out on your own why that is not common.

You can tell yourself, if you like, that you think most LE and Mil would prefer a 1911 over a Glock. I would describe that as a guess based on absolutely no information at all, so you should probably weigh that guess against other information you get.

I will tell you that of the people I know who have actually had to shoot people with a handgun, 100% recommend 9mm Glocks. Why? Because when you have to shoot someone, you don't get points for style. You want the Toyota Camry of handguns: boring, reliable, working.

 

[pointfour0h]

One word answer, "How long is a piece of string?"

I like this guy's answer...exactly what I was thinking.
I prefer a 1911 any day of the week. I would have no problem carrying a 1911 cocked and locked.

 

[Winterkrieg]

---

 

[bearkilr]

I will tell you that of the people I know who have actually had to shoot people with a handgun, 100% recommend 9mm Glocks. Why? Because when you have to shoot someone, you don't get points for style. You want the Toyota Camry of handguns: boring, reliable, working.

Out of all the guns and calibers "they" picked 9mm Glocks, how about that......

I guess you haven't talked to the cops who took part in the North Hollywood shootout and their fearsome 9mm Beretta's. LAPD issued 1911's in 45 after that fiasco.

 

[Stainless_smith]

The chinese army does.

 

[TDC]

Out of all the guns and calibers "they" picked 9mm Glocks, how about that......

I guess you haven't talked to the cops who took part in the North Hollywood shootout and their fearsome 9mm Beretta's. LAPD issued 1911's in 45 after that fiasco.

Lets look at your case a little closer shall we. The robbery and subsequent shootout at the Bank of America in North Hollywood (circa 1997) involved over 300 officers. The "ineffectiveness" of the handguns (and shotguns)used by LE was a direct result of both suspects wearing BODY ARMOUR, to include hard plates(rifle protection). Add to that the average distance from officers to suspects was over 25 yards, you can add in a large portion of MISSES which count for nothing. Any pistol regardless of calibre was useless unless a head shot was to be made. Clearly the skill of the officers and the fact that the two suspects almost continually fired on officers for the duration of the event, seem to validate the ineffectiveness of the issued handguns(and shotguns). The reality, it didn't matter what was being used, armored bad guys with long guns will always trump officers with handguns. Even the shooting of the second suspect(Emil Mătăsăreanu) behind the pickup truck in the street was a lucky break. The officer who did the shooting was running frangible ammo which lacks the ability to penetrate armour very well. Reports indicate the suspect was shot 29 times in the lower extremities. Of course, a single .45ACP round would have disintegrated him on contact..

TDC

ETA: On a side note, LAPD did not issue .45ACP pistols. They merely authorized their use by regular officers.

 

[bollox]

Of course, a single .45ACP round would have disintegrated him on contact..

And he would have been thrown backward 20'.

 

[rodngun]

glock!

comes in all calibers

http://www. youtube.com/watch?v=mXBmcT_Y-6o

ultimately it comes down to what you prefer, personally I LOVE poly framed firearms and the glock FITS that bill, I also hate heavy, and external hammer pistols, that perfectly fits the 1911 bill.

 

[misanthropist]

Out of all the guns and calibers "they" picked 9mm Glocks, how about that......

I guess you haven't talked to the cops who took part in the North Hollywood shootout and their fearsome 9mm Beretta's. LAPD issued 1911's in 45 after that fiasco.

In fact, as pointed out, they did not issue them, they approved them for use.

There was an LA SWAT unit which famously were issued Kimbers.

They equally famously gave up on those guns shortly afterward because of the enormous amount of trouble they had keeping them running.

The guy to read on that subject is Hilton Yam, who knows as much about the 1911 in a service context as anybody except, I guess, Larry Vickers.

The trouble in the North Hollywood shootout was not that cops were armed with 9mm pistols instead of .45 pistols...it's that they were armed with 9mm pistols instead of 5.56 rifles.


Have a good long read through the articles on the 10-8 performance page:

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Articles.html

Also this link may help to explain why it is that they all recommend 9mm Glocks:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

You may think the 1911 is the be-all end-all handgun, and it can be a good choice in some cases, but generally speaking most people are better served with other options.