Yet another entry long range shooter looking for a budget set up

I would at least go with a scope in the vortex pst2 range or up. You can find a rifle that is 1/2-3/4moa capable fairly easy (used tikka tac, rem 5r, rpr) around a grand. And drop the rest on glass/mounts. A scope that wont hold zero or the adjustmens dont track is a deal breaker at longer ranges. There are a few used sightron s111 8-32's on the ee that would make a good optic for 1000 yards, you can always upgrade your rifle (barrel/stock/trigger) in stages but a scope is a buy/sell deal to upgrade. I would lean to buying better optics/mounts than the rifle to start.
 
laker415 said:
I would cross vortex off the list unless it’s a razor HD. This is coming from a guy with 4 vortex scopes. There are much better options out there.

The Remington 783 shorty that just came out would be a good contender too. I have a 783 in 7mm and it’s a very accurate rifle for a budget hunting gun. I will be picking up a shorty 783 since I am so happy with my 7mm.

Factor in the cost of ammo if that helps swing your budget. It costs a lot to shoot quality ammo enough to improve. I reload for all my guns and it still adds up quick
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I am in the same position as the OP and decided to reload right away. The savings are too good not to and getting set up is pretty cheap and will pay off after a couple hundred rounds. I want with the Lee Handpress, Hornady Dies, cheap Lee Scale, and odds and ends. You can spend well under $300 to get set up and I have found it all really easy to use.

Was looking for cheap accuracy and went with a Vangaurd s2 in 6.5cm to save money for scope. Will be watching this thread for recomendations, I have been advised to not go too high in magnification if I am not spending big bucks so I do not sacrifice clarity over magnification. My budget is around $600 and am looking for something around 3x12.
 
Would it make any difference if I said I don’t really plan on upgrading the rifle to another any time soon, if ever? I tend to be someone who buys one thing for one task(ideally around or just before the point of diminishing returns), then move on to do the same thing for another task. For example, one long range rifle, one AR type rifle, one shotgun, etc. Not always does this hold strictly true, but often enough. If that’s the case, would you still suggest just getting a cheap rifle and expensive optics?
 
I was in the same boat as you a year ago, same budget, however different caliber/rifle, I ended up purchasing a Remington 700 Long Range topped with a Burris Veracity 5-25x50. The rifle is no longer with me (sold to fund another project) and scope has sat on a few rifles now and it won't ever be sold. My recommendation to you is buy good glass off the hop and then, dare I use the word cheaper, rifle for now and upgrade the rifle as you go. I love my Burris, theyre about $1100 and ive shot it out to 1000 before, its clear, tracked well and its a FFP which is what I wanted however you can get them in SFP. Are there better scopes out there? Yup but at a cost and for the price of the Veracity, I'm happy.


For rifles, all your options are good, however I would go a remington 700 route for the simple fact once you get into it a little more, you can build a custom rifle off that action, and parts are endless for them. You always see triggers (Timney, Jewel etc) for sale on the EE, stocks/chassis the list is endless. You can buy a nice used HS Precision stock on the EE, slap a Model 700 Barreled action into it, swap the trigger for a timney all yourself and be under $1200 and have a rifle that will shoot lights out and one you can always continue to build/customize for you. The savages and tikka's are great too, Ive owned plenty of both and every one of them have been very accurate rifles, however I don't see as many options for aftermarket parts for them like I do remington. The biggest downfall to a tikka is the mag length limits how long you can seat your bullets (if your going to reload) unless you want to turn it into a single shot which lots of guys don't. Do your research, if you can, go shoot them and decide from there. Good luck and happy shooting!
 
Long Range Shooter - Savage 10TR

Hello dbmeed,

Welcome to the rabbit hole of Long Range Precision Rifle shooting!!

I agree with MartyK2500.

After much reading, I ended up starting out with the Savage 10TR. Their reputation for value (best 'bang' for your buck) led me to that decision. There are other positive factors to consider once you become familiar with this platform. Savages are easily customizable. There are numerous replacement stocks and chassis to fit them. With a little study, minimal tools, and headspace gauges, you can perform barrel swaps yourself (different lengths, calibres, etc...) . Although you can upgrade the trigger, I find the stock "Accu-Trigger" just fine for my purposes. It typically comes with a 0 MOA scope base (easily upgraded if desired), and a threaded barrel (5/8"x24), either 20" or 24" long, 5R rifling 1:10" twist to stabilize heavier projectiles [just writing about it reminds me why I like these so much; in fact I ended up buying a second one ;) ].

Oh yeah, did I mention I picked up a semi-custom Savage on the EE with a 22" SS Shilen barrel in .260 Rem, in a Boyd's stock, so much fun. Anyway, back to our story...

One of my 10TRs in bone stock with the Accu-Stock and Accu-Trigger, large tactical knob, un-fired still in the box. The other is my Long-Range gun set-up in a MDT LSS-XL Chassis, with Accurate-Mags and MDT steel box magazines.

For scopes, I opted for what I thought was pretty good middle of the road value options (again looking for best sight for dollar). I chose the Bushnell Elite Tactical and Elite Hunter scopes; I have a few different ones. The higher end target/tactical Sightron scopes also come very highly recommended for value, which I will probably try next.

I shot a few matches with factory MATCH ammo, but quickly moved over to hand-loading, since I was already hand-loading pistol ammo. Better results for less money, if done correctly.

I thought this review was useful (there are several others, of course):
https://www.huntinggearguy.com/rifle-reviews/savage-10tr-leo-review/

Now for some family photos:

And a 1...
My first Savage 10TR, with only the muzzle brake, scope, and bi-pod as add-ons
vzduxgyh.png


And a 2...
Still my first Savage 10TR, after its 'conversion'.
yVNzVfIh.jpg


And a 3...
My Savage 'coyote' gun in .260 Rem. Of course, it could easily be used for much more...
wTJALhuh.jpg


I don't have a photo of my stock Savage 10TR, because it is still new and in the box!

I imagine I that I could possibly be persuaded to 'share' one of these... :)

Before pulling the trigger check out these site sponsors, each of whom I heartily recommend (there are many others, but for education and very good free advice, these are great):

Tactical Teacher
(By the way, if you hope to shoot at Garrison Petawawa matches with Tactical Teacher, last time I checked they only allow certain calibres, including .308 Win., but not some of the newer fancier calibres, but as you are in NB, that is probably not an issue! There are few from Quebec who join us though.)
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/335-Tactical-Teacher

Mystic Precision
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/276-Mystic-Precision

SFRC (where I got the Savage 10TRs in the first place)
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/190-SFRC-theAmmoSource-com-(Harrowsmith-ON)

For my next Long Range rifle though, I have learned/decided, that it would be best to go right close to the top... ~$4k to $6k... for the rifle only, and possibly that high for the glass, as well.

Cheers,
Pax

MartyK2500 said:
Myself started savage, ...

Started sub moa out of the box
Got sub 3/4 moa with an MDT chassis
And now sub 1/2 moa with an upgrade barrel

My own opinion still stands (you know what they say about opinion eh?)
A 700$ Savage with an 1800$ Optic will sling lead more accurately than a 1800$ rifle with a 700$ optic.

I get you are stuck at 100M.
Sure you can find nice looking glass for not too much.
Reliable tracking turrets are not cheap.
And if you end up shooting further, proper turrets are nice to have.
Click to expand...
 
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Remington 5R milspec gen 2 in 6.5 CR. It’s a ready to go out of the box solution that can be changed as your interests change.

I see Reliable has one for $1300. Keep a look out for Canada day sales. These will get you going right out of the box with a good scope. If going for 1000 yards, you will need enough elevation MOA to get there. Or a FFP with drop down reticle.

If you're looking at doing most of your shooting at shorter than 600 yards with only the occasional and non competitive shooting further out, then consider the 308 version of that rifle.
 
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Pax+Caritas

I enjoyed your read, we have somewhat familiar entries into precision rifles.
These we're my steps, with several months between each of them.

1 : Had a 4500$ budget at the time.
I had blew so much on the scope, had to extend budget just to get a rifle underneat it, as I had no money left for a rifle.
This setup was always sub moa no matter the ammo.

Mjeeurnh.jpg


2 : Got into reloading. With somewhat the basics, a Lee ultimate 308 die set and an RCBS chargemaster
This managed to bring me around the 3/4 moa mark.

3 : MDT ESS Chassis. Did not do much for precision, but brought a lot of consistency to my groups.

Ys9ZDTRh.jpg


4 : Got into specialized reloading, as in FX120 autotrickler, annealing, neck turning etc...
Now my groups went 1/2 moa with regular flyers that made a few groups 3/4 moa

5 : Got an IBI barrel. This really solidified build. Grouping is now constant sub 1/2 moa if I do my part. 5 groups of 5 rounds in a row at 200M, it will sub 1/2 moa

9fVqKV3h.jpg


6 : Now ordered an Ultimatum action. I could just unscrew barrel from savage receiver, and screw it on Ultimatum receiver.


All this to say, that with savage you can customize your build yourself, as in not depend on a gunsmith, and build it up slowly.
And no matter how my rifle evolves, the scope that's on a unimount, just travels from setup^to setup, I do not feel like it's a weak link at this moment, and probably for a good while too.
 
I enjoyed reading your story too Marty. Mine just had to be a bit more 'budget' than yours, but I am happy with mine. While I would love the 'perfect rifle/scope' set-up, I actually enjoy the challenge of 'shooting through' the issues of imperfect kit. I think that in the end it forces me to discipline myself to make my best shot.

Is that a Razor HD? How do you like it?

Really nice looking rifle by the way!
 
Well, I thought I had a good idea of what I wanted, now I have no idea what I want lol. For some reason Ive always had some kind of bias against savage, not sure why, but now after all this and some other research, it seems that was unfounded. Looks like Ill just have to find some place I can go shoot a bunch of different stuff and see what jumps out at me. At this point I think Ill just end up with whatever I can find a good deal on and go from there.
 
Absolutely, talking to others, handling and trying different rifles before buying is the best way to go. I am not sure if there are many other Long Rangers in NB, but if you could ever take a weekend to Ontario, there several long range events every season that you could attend, even as a guest and check out, probably even try a few set-ups. These meets, especially those organized by Tactical Teacher are a really good time, both on the range and off.

Come on down and join the party.
 
I do have family (and friends from /r/knifeclub) in/around GTA i could stay with overnight...I may have to make a roadtrip sometime :D
 
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dbmeed said:
Well, I thought I had a good idea of what I wanted, now I have no idea what I want lol. For some reason Ive always had some kind of bias against savage, not sure why, but now after all this and some other research, it seems that was unfounded. Looks like Ill just have to find some place I can go shoot a bunch of different stuff and see what jumps out at me. At this point I think Ill just end up with whatever I can find a good deal on and go from there.
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By the way SFRC are having a Canada day sale at their shop.
I think a Savage 10TR would finish around 645$ to your door all included with this sale.
Which could let's say as an example, leave you 1600$ for a Vortex Viper PST gen2 5-25x50 FFP and another 170$ for quality rings (we could say ATRS)
Scope choice is just something popular I picked out in price range, never tried it and don't know anyone with it.

https://theammosource.com/store/

https://www.theammosource.com/store...ucts_id=3366&zenid=lfjkdg6rem7rp6l3jjfp4q67a3


Just so you know I am not completely sold Savage.
But love rifles where you can change a barrel yourself with nothing more than a barrel vise, a barrel nut wrench, and a headspace gauge.
Really gives you freedom and independence from gunsmiths.
The rem783 is also set that way and hear lot's of praise also towards it, just lacking aftermarket support right now (think stocks and chassis).
Also seen Howa 1500 and ruger RPRs shoot very well, don't know what kind of barrel system they use though. But both of these will eat away some scope budget.


Pax+Caritas said:
I enjoyed reading your story too Marty. Mine just had to be a bit more 'budget' than yours, but I am happy with mine. While I would love the 'perfect rifle/scope' set-up, I actually enjoy the challenge of 'shooting through' the issues of imperfect kit. I think that in the end it forces me to discipline myself to make my best shot.

Is that a Razor HD? How do you like it?

Really nice looking rifle by the way!
Click to expand...

Thanks!
Yes it's a razor gen 2, 4.5-27x56 mrad
It's clear, tracks good, has just the right features, and is a heavy SOB!
Scope plus mount is nearing 4 pounds.

I love it but... also admit I don't have a big personal baseline to compare it with.
According to this review made by a fellow CGNer, I am not giving up much in clarity compared to more expensive scopes

https://rifletalk.org/2016/08/26/review-vortex-razor-hd-ii-4-5-27x56/
 
MartyK2500 said:
By the way SFRC are having a Canada day sale at their shop.
I think a Savage 10TR would finish around 645$ to your door all included with this sale.
Which could let's say as an example, leave you 1600$ for a Vortex Viper PST gen2 5-25x50 FFP and another 170$ for quality rings (we could say ATRS)
Scope choice is just something popular I picked out in price range, never tried it and don't know anyone with it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was just looking around on their site (side note, why are so many gun dealers websites so bad?) and its really tempting, but I think Im going to have to wait, because I dont feel like Ive done enough research yet, nor enough pricing searches. I am also kind set on 6.5 Creedmoor, because I dont plan on using it for hunting, so I dont really need the extra knockdown power of .308.

The general feeling I was getting from this thread was that Vortex was overrated, and I should go for something a bit higher end, yet you suggest the Vortex Viper PST that I listed in the original post?
 
dbmeed said:
Yeah, I was just looking around on their site (side note, why are so many gun dealers websites so bad?) and its really tempting, but I think Im going to have to wait, because I dont feel like Ive done enough research yet, nor enough pricing searches. I am also kind set on 6.5 Creedmoor, because I dont plan on using it for hunting, so I dont really need the extra knockdown power of .308.

The general feeling I was getting from this thread was that Vortex was overrated, and I should go for something a bit higher end, yet you suggest the Vortex Viper PST that I listed in the original post?
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In my opinion (you know what they say about them eh!)
6.5CM is a great choice, myself went .308 for other reasons but would of loved a 6.5
And i am not suggesting a viper pst gen ll, it could be good like it could be hit or miss.
I just don’t know much about it.

Was just refered since it’s so popular
 
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MartyK2500 said:
In my opinion (you know what they say about them eh!)
6.5CM is a great choice, myself went .308 for other choices but would of loved a 6.5
And i am not suggesting a viper pst gen ll, it could be good like it good be hit or miss.
I just don’t know much about it.

Was just refered since it’s so popular
Click to expand...

Gotcha, thanks!
 
dbmeed said:
Getting mixed messages here...lol
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Nah, the more you spend on glass, the better. I don't however agree that someone new needs (or should) spend upwards of $2000 on it when you can get a Nikon 6-24 with first focal plane for around $1000. My first optic was a Vortex, but their prices seem to have really spiraled out of control over the last year or so and Nikon, Bushnell and even Leupold seem to be presenting a better value to shooters trying to get into the longer range game (Just my opinion)

It's a bit of a catch .22 because people want to dive in head first, but my Savage LRH in 6.5 CM, a 4-12 Vortex Diamondback Tactical, and a used Cadex chassis I scored off the EE (Thank you BrianMa) has me shooting 3/4-1/2 groups at 100 yards for about $1600.
 
At the end of the day with scopes and rifles handle a few rifles and look through the optics. It's the only way ever to do it. Rifles are kind of funny like that they all go bang and accuracy is not as complex as it once was. I've always been a Remington 700 kind of guy because of the sheer amount of aftermarket parts that are available (even here!!!). Then I bought a Savage 12FV in 204 Ruger and loved that rifle, but wasn't huge on the caliber and sold it. My Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500 showed up the other day, and I'm hands down impressed by how great the action is. Point is as many guns as I've owned I'm always finding something new. Get out there shoulder a few rifles, play with bolts, look at them! Pick what one you like best and don't look back. The internet is such a two-edged sword, you can find out lots of great info, and on the same hand never buy a gun and get on your project because the decision is too hard. Just remember, you can always sell it.

It's the same thing with optics; Vortex is a great brand at the decent price. Their pricing isn't the same as when they started making their big push, but low and behold if was effective. Vortex, Bushnell, Burris, Leupold, Nikon, Trijicon, Athalon, Primary Arms, Meopta, and so on are all good brands. Check out the scopes you are interested and go somewhere they have them and look through them. Twist the turrets, play with the power ring, use the focus ring. It's the only way you will ever figure it out. And most importantly, make decisions for yourself. We all work hard for our money, and I get wanting to make the right purchase the first time. But as you shoot and improve your gear will change, lessons will be learned. It's one of those things you cant account for no matter what. Get out there and make it happen!
 
Seems like thats what Im gonna have to do. The only thing is, theres no gun dealers around here that are big enough to carry more than 1 or 2 brands of optics, and they usually only carry common hunting rifles and shotguns, not as much precision stuff. Looks like Im gonna have to take a roadtrip sometime.

I might just buy a few second hand rifles/optics, try them for a bit, and sell what I dont like.
 
dbmeed said:
Seems like thats what Im gonna have to do. The only thing is, theres no gun dealers around here that are big enough to carry more than 1 or 2 brands of optics, and they usually only carry common hunting rifles and shotguns, not as much precision stuff. Looks like Im gonna have to take a roadtrip sometime.

I might just buy a few second hand rifles/optics, try them for a bit, and sell what I dont like.
Click to expand...

It's a good way to do it! Plus a who doesn't love a great road trip, espicially when guns are involved. If you can make your way to the mainland check out Ellwood Epps in Ontario, they have so many guns its actually astounding. I've been selling firearms for over 6 years now and they blow my mind. Don't forget there are tons of great online shops that will answer all your questions. Check out Prophet River and Wolverine Supplies, if you want to order as far West as it comes Wanstall's is a great store and great staff. All of these stores will service you till the cows come home. And most places will have a 30-day policay on optics, so you can order online and if you really hate it call em up and send it back!
 
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