Yet another High Performance ML
- Thread starter hakx
- Start date
Hopefully the smokeless powered muzzle loaders don't result in a change in the regulations relating to their use during muzzle loading season. I don't however see them as any more dangerous than reloading ammunition. In either case, you have to take care in measuring the powder charge.
I'd like to see what 3000fps does to the plastic sabot 
The pettles shear off mine at about 1900fps...It would
probably liquify the plastic.
IMO it's still a muzzleloader, no matter what ballistics you
get out of it. You still load it from the muzzle one at a
time, just like any other. It's the same debate archery
hunters have had for a long time, where you get the
longbow vs recurve vs cam vs crossbow. We all spend
too much time defending our own views as the "right"
one, instead of enjoying the similarities. Just get out
there and SHOOT them, and enjoy them. 
The pettles shear off mine at about 1900fps...It would
probably liquify the plastic.
IMO it's still a muzzleloader, no matter what ballistics you
get out of it. You still load it from the muzzle one at a
time, just like any other. It's the same debate archery
hunters have had for a long time, where you get the
longbow vs recurve vs cam vs crossbow. We all spend
too much time defending our own views as the "right"
one, instead of enjoying the similarities. Just get out
there and SHOOT them, and enjoy them.
problem is, you would have to measure it out before hand and put it in a container that wouldent let moisture in. and thats not easy up here in canada durring most hunting seasons. cant measure it in the field.
and as for the reloading, with the number of people i run into that think reloading is filling up the case and scraping the top off and seating a bullet... it doesent leave me feeling all warm and fussy for people using this.
i saw a .222/12ga barrel set with the 222 chamber totaly exploded into the 12ga chamber, if someone can do that with at most 27 grains of powder. what could someone do with something they could fit well over 400 grains of powder into.
and as for the reloading, with the number of people i run into that think reloading is filling up the case and scraping the top off and seating a bullet... it doesent leave me feeling all warm and fussy for people using this.
i saw a .222/12ga barrel set with the 222 chamber totaly exploded into the 12ga chamber, if someone can do that with at most 27 grains of powder. what could someone do with something they could fit well over 400 grains of powder into.
Everyone I know that hunts with a muzzleloader, uses
pre-measured charges. 35mm film containers are all
I use.
As for the whole smokeless-powder thing...it all comes
down to safety, knowledge, and being smart. Labeling,
and getting into a routine are paramount. I would not
advise anyone new to ML hunting to get one of these.
Spend alot of time learning/reading before doing any
sort of reloading, cartridge or BP.
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Personally I'm all for changing the hunting regs to traditional equipment in muzzle loaders.
What possible use is there for things like this other than trying to sidestep the regs?
What possible use is there for things like this other than trying to sidestep the regs?
How "traditional" do you want to go....that is the question???
How about matchlock only or maybe wheel-lock only....
or should it be flintlock smoothbore only.
Do you see where this is going...You can't have only one group
saying that their way is the right way. Divide and conquer, its
what will end all hunting IMO.
I too think that it has gone too far. Pennsylvania, I believe, has a "Flintlocks Only" rule for their traditional season. There is supposed to be some challenge and using traditional methods as our anscestors did. Historic firearms....smokeless and 3000 FPS? If you think in-lines are not traditional then how does smokeless fit in? You can use matchlock and wheel lock now, along with smooth bores, if you desire. How about calling it "Black Powder" season and let that be the limitation? In Ontario the limitation is the MNR .... they are only interested in selling licenses. Kind of like giving the rooster the keys to the henhouse.
Sheering petals is no big deal and does nothing to affect accuracy or velocity and actually quite common. The real problem with sabots is blowing holes through the bottom when you start pushing them with too much speed. Putting a ballistic bridge between the powder and sabot does help a lot with high pressure loads and would likely stand up to even 3,000 fps. I know I've shot over 2,500 and they hold together.
This is what happens without a ballistic bridge.....
i think the regs already have been changed because of inline ballistics, , dawsen creek b.c. had a muzzleloader moose season , its been gone for years, as are the traditional hunters that used to go up there for moose,, wade
All you accomplish by excluding certain types of firearms (muzzleloaders in this case) is to create an arms race. One guy trying to get an edge on another...who can
get the most out of what you are allowed. You can already get sidelocks that will handle 150gr charges...I think TC even has a flintlock that will handle it???
So...in the end, all you are doing is creating a new market for gun makers, and forcing those that must have the fastest/lightest/most accurate etc. to buy a new
gun, to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the first place. Are BP shooters killing too many deer...
Now...if you wanted to mandate round-ball only OR no optical/adj. sights, that might be an option...but again are we killing too many deer the way we have it now.
get the most out of what you are allowed. You can already get sidelocks that will handle 150gr charges...I think TC even has a flintlock that will handle it???
So...in the end, all you are doing is creating a new market for gun makers, and forcing those that must have the fastest/lightest/most accurate etc. to buy a new
gun, to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the first place. Are BP shooters killing too many deer...
Now...if you wanted to mandate round-ball only OR no optical/adj. sights, that might be an option...but again are we killing too many deer the way we have it now.
150 grains of black powder or black powder substitute really is no better than 100 or 120. the extra powder burns off in the air outside the bbl. any modern muzzle loader (traditional weather it be flint, cap match or wheel) with a modern bbl can handle 150 grain charges someone useing a true antique might be at a dissadvantage, but who in their right mind would use a true antique for hunting. if its in good enugh chshape to be accurate then really it should be saved. problem is, the blackpowder season was meant to be a little early for those of us that go traditional so we get some extra time to get something before the centerfires get out there. all it is now with these high powered inlines is a weeks extra centerfire season under the guise of muzzle loader season.
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