You and a Man Eating Tiger - What Rifle?

That sidelock is beautiful!

PeakXV - unrestrained/unscrupulous deforestation has robbed the Indian sub-continent of almost all of it's natural beauty so what you see today is just the fading remnants of how it actually was......some of that may still be understood today if one is visiting the Himalayan foothill regions around Nepal.
 
mdbuckle said:
A slug to the face would have better results IMO...:p
True enough words were never said...BUT when a 500lb man eater is charging and you have less than 50m to make a shot to slow him down a little I think 00 buck would do the job just fine with less chance of a panicked miss.What if you smack him in the forehead with the slug and it skips off?Or you hit him in the chest and either miss the heart or he just keeps coming on adrenalin?Buck would find the soft flesh just fine.If he can't see you he can't eat you.Then step aside and finish him with a nice aimed broadside slug.:D
 
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Longshot said:
True enough words were never said...BUT when a 500lb man eater is charging and you have less than 50m to make a shot to slow him down a little I think 00 buck would do the job just fine with less chance of a panicked miss....

Just talking through my hat here as I've never had the questionable opportunity to be in that position, but there will be a heck of a lot of momentum and adrenaline in that cat as it rockets towards you. I suspect that "a panicked miss" with 00 buck might have the undesirable side-effect of making it REALLY angry and thus not in a very good frame of mind when it lands on you, which might well be the time you'd be planning to use that second shot.

I saw a bit of as-yet-unedited footage of one of Jim Shockey's videos a couple of years ago where a hippo charged him and the PH turned the charge with a .470 N.E. It was amazing how fast that critter accelerated!

:) Stuart
 
Ahsan Ahmed said:
That sidelock is beautiful!

PeakXV - unrestrained/unscrupulous deforestation has robbed the Indian sub-continent of almost all of it's natural beauty so what you see today is just the fading remnants of how it actually was......some of that may still be understood today if one is visiting the Himalayan foothill regions around Nepal.

Yup, lack of habitat, human encrouchment and the tiger bone industry in China are all going to combine to pull the final trigger on them. Still some
beautiful parks in India to catch a little bit of what it was like. Kanha, Corbett, Ranthambhor , & Bhandhavgarh are great parks for flora, fauna and a chance to see the tiger.

There are still Man-eaters in Sunderbans that kill 50-60 people a year:eek: - they grab the fishermen right out of there boats. I don't think even Corbett would be crazy enough to venture into that labyrinth of mangrove and swamp - a sure ambush waiting to happen - 50 yards would be a dream there. I think the Sunderbans Tigers will be the last to go.

<read more>

http://in.news.yahoo.com/040121/43/2b1d9.html
 
Just finished the Corbett omnibus (Man-Eaters of Kumaon, The Temple Tiger and More Man-Eaters of Kumaon, The Man-Eating Leopard of Rudraprayag) last night funnily enough, going to start on the his second omnibus (My India, Jungle Lore, Tree Tops) next. I was happy to see that so many of you have an interest in him and his writing. I figured he was nearly forgotten. See my profile for a picture of Jim Corbett with the Bachelor of Powalgarh. Also if anyone is interested, you can join The Jim Corbett Foundation, the website is here: http://maxpages.com/jimcorbett I believe the founder is a Canadian, based in Edmonton and was largely responsible for restoring Corbett's grave in Kenya. Not the greatest website but has some interesting information. Another book I'd recommend is 'The Man-Eaters of Tsavo' by JH Patterson (The Ghost and The Darkness movie was loosely based on the book). Well worth the read, but not nearly as good a writer as Corbett.
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nkdjames I started reading his books in the 1960's!!

BTW, that leopard in the photo's is The Man-Eating Leopard of Rudraprayag!! Offical score of 125 people eaten!! But the real score was most likely a lot higher!
 
Gibbs505 said:
nkdjames I started reading his books in the 1960's!!

BTW, that leopard in the photo's is The Man-Eating Leopard of Rudraprayag!! Offical score of 125 people eaten!! But the real score was most likely a lot higher!

Yeah, and I bet you've read them many times since. :D I know I will. I've already read Man-Eaters of Kumaon twice in as many years. Now I'm working through the rest of them, I ordered the books directly from India, the Oxford University Press there still publishes them.

Here's a better one of the big kitty!!! (Bachelor of Powalgarh)
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josquin said:
Just talking through my hat here as I've never had the questionable opportunity to be in that position, but there will be a heck of a lot of momentum and adrenaline in that cat as it rockets towards you. I suspect that "a panicked miss" with 00 buck might have the undesirable side-effect of making it REALLY angry and thus not in a very good frame of mind when it lands on you, which might well be the time you'd be planning to use that second shot.

I saw a bit of as-yet-unedited footage of one of Jim Shockey's videos a couple of years ago where a hippo charged him and the PH turned the charge with a .470 N.E. It was amazing how fast that critter accelerated!

:) Stuart
Sure yeah. I'm just talking out of my ass as well.I guess I figure a face full of buck might be better than a questionable hit in a non vital area or a slow leaking death.I think you are right on the momentum considering an average man can move 18 feet in 1 second,I'm sure a big cat could travel that 50m in pretty much the same amount of time.I have seen footage of a Cape buffalo that charged a guide and his client after the client wounded him.The guide stood his ground and shot the buff twice in the nose and without a word of a lie the thing fell dead about 3 feet away from him.It was some kind of double rifle for sure.All I guess I'm really saying is that you better bloody well be a confident mother####er if you only have two solid shots between you and certain death.Personally I'll take the face full of buck to take away its vision.
 
This is copied from:

http://ww.african-hunter.com/Rifle_Choice_4_Dangerous_Game.htm

For starters, I want to look at that controversial issue of using a shotgun on cats. At the last two proficiency exams the choice of all learners, except for a smattering of old hands, for wounded leopard was a pump or semi-auto 12 bore. For wounded lion, most said that they would stick to their rifles, although several said that they would consider a shotgun in very thick cover. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE! ! !

If you go through the Professional Hunters and Guides Association awards for bravery, an inordinate number seem to go to trackers who rescue their PH's from under a leopard they failed to stop with a shotgun. If you go through the records of the Department of National Parks, 86% of the PH's injured by animals fall prey to leopards, and invariably wounded leopards whose charges they have failed to stop with a shotgun. Bear in mind that at leopard charge ranges, the shot from a shotgun will not have begun to spread out. You therefore have a heavy, but very slow and very frangible projectile. Pellets are round and tend to ricochet off the skull, whilst all but the heaviest pellets may not get through the chest muscles. Not what the doctor ordered.

As Brian Marsh pointed out in an excellent article on the subject in last June's edition of Magnum, the best weapon for leopard is the one you are most familiar with. Unless you are a keen (and good) bird shooter who can definitely snap shoot better with your shotgun than a rifle, leave the shotgun at home. Also very few semi-auto shotguns and even fewer pumps are well fitting firearms (go and see how many are used for competition) and I, like Brian am convinced that 99% of hunters would be much better served by their rifles. If you are worried about being able to snap shoot with your normal rifle, get the stock professionally altered so that it fits you better than any off-the-shelf shotgun. In short, use a reasonably fitting rifle and you are very unlikely to end up under a leopard.

For those who insist on using a shotgun, use Breneke slugs. At least they will penetrate adequately on a leopard, and create a massive wound channel. Do NOT use the American Foster type slugs. On an unwounded cat they are great, but the only ones I've seen used on a charging leopard failed to get through the ribs, and that from a 3" Magnum load. The new saboted slugs will penetrate fine but give you a wound channel half the size of the Breneke:- pass. If you can get copper plated LG (000 Buck) that might be OK for the first shot if you really want to use shot, but you had better have a slug in the other barrel for when the shot fails.

I do not know where the idea arose that a 12g with 'loopers' (i.e. an old load containing 3.70" calibre balls) was the thing for dealing with lion charge either. I suspect that this originated either with people who had never tried it, or they were referring to 12g rifles. Col. Patterson, when trying to deal with the Man-eaters of Tsavo in 1898 (the hero of Ghost & The Darkness if you saw it) tried both a l2g shot gun loaded with slugs and a 12g rifle loaded with solids. He shot the one lion at a range of a couple of feet when it was trying to climb on to his pole platform (basha) with a 12g shotgun loaded with slugs. The lion pushed off, but when Patterson finally killed it 10 days later (using a .303) he found both slugs stuck just under the skin. He later tried a l2g double rifle. A lion charged, his first shot, a solid, went in under the eye and lodged in the lion's back leg. His second shot was a soft, and this failed to penetrate the muscles on the chest. Patterson only survived because his gun bearer broke and fled at this point and the lion turned on him, giving Patterson a chance to get his .303 into action.

Not much has changed in the last 100 years. A .303 with good bullets is still a better weapon for dealing with a wounded lion than any shotgun. As noted in my article on game toughness, a bullet needs to be travelling at over 2250fp to exploit a cat's susceptibility to shock. No shotgun load achieves this and you therefore have to rely on killing the animal by destroying organs. With a perforated heart a lion can still move for up to 8 seconds - at 15+ metres a second: perfect medicine in a close quarters confrontation. I wouldn't trust even a Breneke slug to get through the chest muscles on a charging lion at any but point blank range. Unmarked hunters are those who do not let anything nasty get anywhere near point blank range until after it has been skinned.

In conclusion then, shotguns and lions are a first class recipe for a mauled hunter, whilst if the National Parks records are anything to go by, a shotgun and a wounded leopard are not always a good mix. Leave shotguns for the birds and stick to rifles for big game. That way you don't get hurt… however, always carry a handgun when following up wounded cats. Pistoling a peeved pussy on top of you is infinitely easier than trying to throttle it. (If you are a complete chicken like myself, fit a bayonet to your rifle. You can then keep kitty at a reasonable distance while drawing your revolver: -much better than giving it an arm to chew on.)
 
geologist said:
For stopping dangerous game.

Rifle = good

Shotgun = not so good
Out of interest, exactly what effect does 2 rounds buckshot have at 20yds or less?
Would it be likely to deter the tiger?
Would it blast part of his head away but not kill him?
Surely some of that shot would get close to the brain via the eyesockets?:confused:
 
I'm sure it wouldn't be pleased...however I was on a 1 shot 00 buck and the follow up a slug.
I can't see how it wouldn't at least put a little damper on his day.
 
do i see a posible best Leopard/tiger defence weapon thread starting soon ? LOL
shotgun, rifle, doesnt matter cause if it doesnt work you will be the second one to figure it out " the animal chewing on your skull being the first" lol
personaly for shotgun i would lean towards heavy slugs, rifles .303 or bigger a must
 
Demonical said:
Wasn't he doing most of that from an elevated blind?
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JC just officially rolled over in his grave. ;)

He finished the temple tiger with his last .500 bullet ....."a very angry tigress was coming straight at me; so, waiting till she was 2 yards away, I leant forward and with great good luck manged to put the remaining bullet in the rifle into the hollow where her necked joined her shoulder."
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