You don't see these for sale everyday! French Mle 1917 rifle.
- Thread starter mtallman
- Start date
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Do we have anything like this or similar in a museum somewhere (in Canada)? It would be nice as an interested member of the public to be able to go see one in person. Or have the gun dealers become defacto museums? I know I like to go to Wolverine Supplies to see John's collection of milsurps. Used to do the same at S.I.R.
There's a thread over on GunBoards in the Collector's forum about a visit to the Breslau (Wroclaw) Military Museum with pics. Amazing collection of firearms and militaria.
I know there are some good ones in reserve unit armouries (in Winnipeg the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and the Fort Garry Horse museums come to mind). But what do we have for really impressive civic and national museums besides the Canadian War Museum?
There's a thread over on GunBoards in the Collector's forum about a visit to the Breslau (Wroclaw) Military Museum with pics. Amazing collection of firearms and militaria.
I know there are some good ones in reserve unit armouries (in Winnipeg the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and the Fort Garry Horse museums come to mind). But what do we have for really impressive civic and national museums besides the Canadian War Museum?
I found the CWM dissapointing at 15 years old - if you could dissapoint me at 15 with a war museum, you know there were issues. A buddy of mine at the time had a huge knowledge of Naval History, and went along pointing out errors in the displays. Very sad really.
This is a very large problem with Canada: there is no PUBLICLY-AVAILABLE collection of reference firearms. In Canada, if you want so understand how something strange actually works, you have to find it and buy it; that's how I ended up with the weird assortment I have, including a super-rare Armaguerra 39.
Scary to see how much these have appreciated in "value"...... or how far the Dollar has slid, the two working hand in hand. These used to be $39.95 from Hunter's Lodge, although they had been welded to straight-pulls. Original semi-autos have always been rare. The 1918 got some service in the Rif War but, otherwise, you never hear about them.
There should be a few of these in Canada, somewhere: Hunter's Lodge's Canadian agent was Albion in Peterborough, which is where I got my AOI 1870/87/915 Vetterli-Vitali, an $11.97 purchase, plus $1.45 for rail shipment to here. By the time I saved up $39.95 plus 20%, these were all gone. STILL haven't had the chance to tear one down!
Very Nice Toy.
Whoever gets it should be very happy, one would think (as I quietly turn green).
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Scary to see how much these have appreciated in "value"...... or how far the Dollar has slid, the two working hand in hand. These used to be $39.95 from Hunter's Lodge, although they had been welded to straight-pulls. Original semi-autos have always been rare. The 1918 got some service in the Rif War but, otherwise, you never hear about them.
There should be a few of these in Canada, somewhere: Hunter's Lodge's Canadian agent was Albion in Peterborough, which is where I got my AOI 1870/87/915 Vetterli-Vitali, an $11.97 purchase, plus $1.45 for rail shipment to here. By the time I saved up $39.95 plus 20%, these were all gone. STILL haven't had the chance to tear one down!
Very Nice Toy.
Whoever gets it should be very happy, one would think (as I quietly turn green).
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When I was in the Garry's, if there was one work detail that I really did look forward to, it was helping out in the Weapons Room. That gave me an opportunity to see not just the Sterlings, GPMGs, HMGs, and FN C1A1s/A2s that I was already familiar with but all the war souvenirs brought back or acquired in trade by the Regiment.
The Garry's had German MG 34s, MP 40s, Panzershreks, a Goliath and a German recoilless gun to mention a few. OK that made sense - WW2 souvenirs from Europe. But they also had things like a French Hotchkiss MG from WW1 and I think a Japanese Nambu or Type 92. Just great stuff. NCO would have to kick our butts to stop us from gawking and get to work. But he'd also let us play around with them too!
The politicians, the media and the antis today - they like to talk democracy and people's choice. But its only if you agree with them. I can't stand the way they try to score points by twisting the truth and tell half lies or denying a voice to those that don't hold their opinions. Sorry for the rant.
The Garry's had German MG 34s, MP 40s, Panzershreks, a Goliath and a German recoilless gun to mention a few. OK that made sense - WW2 souvenirs from Europe. But they also had things like a French Hotchkiss MG from WW1 and I think a Japanese Nambu or Type 92. Just great stuff. NCO would have to kick our butts to stop us from gawking and get to work. But he'd also let us play around with them too!
The politicians, the media and the antis today - they like to talk democracy and people's choice. But its only if you agree with them. I can't stand the way they try to score points by twisting the truth and tell half lies or denying a voice to those that don't hold their opinions. Sorry for the rant.
Far as the CWM is concerned, they told me, flat-out, that they don't hire 'collectors' because they are afraid of their precious exhibits being stolen. But they do hire "experts", many of whom, it seems, cannot read or write.
After seeing their version of a Sten Gun proudly displayed (it had AUTO ORDNANCE CORPORATION rollmarked on it and the words THOMPSON SUB-MACHINE GUN.... rather strange markings for a Sten, I thought.... but then, I'm only a Collector, not an "Expert"), I just about gagged. Told them about it, but it had not been changed in the ensuing two years, so I haven't bothered going back. What they are REALLY good at, though, is looting other collections across Canada, as in our Sturmpanzer IV from CFB Shilo.
CWM does have a reference collection but it is almost impossible to get into, it is almost disorganised and they have no idea what some of their stuff might be. They actually have a German Aircraft Maxim fully-documented and donated by AVM BILLY BISHOP MC DSC VC,.... and they don`t even bother cleaning it. I picked up an interesting piece of steel and was told that it was completely illegal because it was a MACHINE GUN PART. First I ever heard of the 1891 Moisin-Nagant being capable of automatic fire. Wonder how they did it.
OTOH, I DO know precisely how they did it with the Long Lee-Enfield, as the Pattern Room, when I was there, was staffed by people who really knew their onions and were most enthusiastic when it came to assisting foreign students (me). Got to play with the Charlton, Maxim s/n 1, Maxim s/n 100 (pretty good out of an original purchase of exactly 100), DWM Maxim 1908/16 s/n 9 (only surviving specimen), X-70 s/n 04 (now developed into the IW), Sealed Pattern of my Snider Cavalry Carbine,thing such as that.
IWM collection is mostly locked away but it is staggering. If you have a specific area to research, you contact them a few days prior to your visit and they will fill up a room for you. While there, I was able to identify for them Maxim`s first prototype automatic gun (1883/4), had German, Chinese, Russian and English Maxims apart, side-by-side for comparison, that kind of thing. Saw a REALLY nice ZEPPELIN Maxim 1908 from the Zepp which my grandparents watched being shot down over London. Pup with Bucks, of course. Gave them a copy of the manual that I wrote for the Shilo Museum, they photocopied it about 3 weeks later for Dolf G________, but I don`t even rate a mention in the book, much less a thank-you.
But there ARE publicly-available reference collections, just none in this ultra-paranoid country of ours. Too bad.
So, despite tons of tax dollars ladelled to Ottwa, there has been NO CHANGE since I started collecting, near to 50 years ago: if you want to play with it, you had better BUY IT before some paranoid clown in Ottawa decides that it is too dangerous for the mere Masses to know about.
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After seeing their version of a Sten Gun proudly displayed (it had AUTO ORDNANCE CORPORATION rollmarked on it and the words THOMPSON SUB-MACHINE GUN.... rather strange markings for a Sten, I thought.... but then, I'm only a Collector, not an "Expert"), I just about gagged. Told them about it, but it had not been changed in the ensuing two years, so I haven't bothered going back. What they are REALLY good at, though, is looting other collections across Canada, as in our Sturmpanzer IV from CFB Shilo.
CWM does have a reference collection but it is almost impossible to get into, it is almost disorganised and they have no idea what some of their stuff might be. They actually have a German Aircraft Maxim fully-documented and donated by AVM BILLY BISHOP MC DSC VC,.... and they don`t even bother cleaning it. I picked up an interesting piece of steel and was told that it was completely illegal because it was a MACHINE GUN PART. First I ever heard of the 1891 Moisin-Nagant being capable of automatic fire. Wonder how they did it.
OTOH, I DO know precisely how they did it with the Long Lee-Enfield, as the Pattern Room, when I was there, was staffed by people who really knew their onions and were most enthusiastic when it came to assisting foreign students (me). Got to play with the Charlton, Maxim s/n 1, Maxim s/n 100 (pretty good out of an original purchase of exactly 100), DWM Maxim 1908/16 s/n 9 (only surviving specimen), X-70 s/n 04 (now developed into the IW), Sealed Pattern of my Snider Cavalry Carbine,thing such as that.
IWM collection is mostly locked away but it is staggering. If you have a specific area to research, you contact them a few days prior to your visit and they will fill up a room for you. While there, I was able to identify for them Maxim`s first prototype automatic gun (1883/4), had German, Chinese, Russian and English Maxims apart, side-by-side for comparison, that kind of thing. Saw a REALLY nice ZEPPELIN Maxim 1908 from the Zepp which my grandparents watched being shot down over London. Pup with Bucks, of course. Gave them a copy of the manual that I wrote for the Shilo Museum, they photocopied it about 3 weeks later for Dolf G________, but I don`t even rate a mention in the book, much less a thank-you.
But there ARE publicly-available reference collections, just none in this ultra-paranoid country of ours. Too bad.
So, despite tons of tax dollars ladelled to Ottwa, there has been NO CHANGE since I started collecting, near to 50 years ago: if you want to play with it, you had better BUY IT before some paranoid clown in Ottawa decides that it is too dangerous for the mere Masses to know about.
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Are you talking about a Brumbar? When did that happen?
Shilo had a Sturmgeschutz IIIg and a Sturmpanzer IV.
They still have the StG IIIg.
Sturmpanzer IV was basically a modded IV chassis, sloped armour and a great massive long HV horn out the front, 7.5cm L/71 if I recall. This is what went to Ottawa. At least, that`s what we always called it. The way designations were changing at the end of the War, it could rightly have been a Jagdpanzer IV.... but it was still a modded IV chassis with sloped armour as far as the guys in the Fireflies were concerned.
Sorry not to be more specific. It has been a long time.
But Ottawa still has it..... and it SHOULD be RUNNING, not sitting on a concrete slab for the Great Unwashed to gawk at.
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They still have the StG IIIg.
Sturmpanzer IV was basically a modded IV chassis, sloped armour and a great massive long HV horn out the front, 7.5cm L/71 if I recall. This is what went to Ottawa. At least, that`s what we always called it. The way designations were changing at the end of the War, it could rightly have been a Jagdpanzer IV.... but it was still a modded IV chassis with sloped armour as far as the guys in the Fireflies were concerned.
Sorry not to be more specific. It has been a long time.
But Ottawa still has it..... and it SHOULD be RUNNING, not sitting on a concrete slab for the Great Unwashed to gawk at.
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OK the Jagdpanzer IV with the long 75mm. I got you. I don't recall seeing that one so it must have been moved before my time. The Sturmpanzer IV was the Brumbar with the short 15 cm howitzer for fortification busting.
I have pics of Shilo's StuG lll, Sherman tank and German guns. Also some Marders and Leopards in the field. Would have been nice if the Germans had left a Leopard for a remembrance of their time training at CFB Shilo but I guess that would be too expensive.
I have pics of Shilo's StuG lll, Sherman tank and German guns. Also some Marders and Leopards in the field. Would have been nice if the Germans had left a Leopard for a remembrance of their time training at CFB Shilo but I guess that would be too expensive.
