You like milsurp refurbs? Here's one of the bigger ones...
- Thread starter Dark Alley Dan
- Start date
buzzmagoo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- sprucewood Hallows Eastern Townships
Update:
Wednesday was very productive. Dropped by early with a bag full of tools and blood in my eye. That firing block was gonna come out or else I was going to apply harsher language and more animal brute force.
You may recall the firing block. It's the wee box on the arse end of the breech.
Last week we pulled out the Firing Block Catch, switched the safety to "safe", and attempted to rotate the block clockwise as per the manual. Should go as easy as this:
(skip to :32)
[youtube]bfwwEdR7eLo?t=32[/youtube]
Sadly, the combined force of a brawny WO and me shouting encouragement accomplished nothing. She was on there as tight as if she was welded. I retired to consider strategy. Fast forward to this past Wednesday, when I returned to the battlefield with a soft-faced hammer and a plan.
Scribed around the perimeter of the piece with a dental tool, applied penetrating oil, waited five minutes, whispering soft words of affection to her the whole time. Switched the gun to "safe", pulled the disassembly catch rearward, applied torque. Nothing. Hammer time.
Gentle taps showed slight progress. Good. Not breaking stuff. Hit harder. Rotation.
More tappage. Interrupted threads disengage, block is free. Feeling pretty Indiana Jones about now.
There she is. About two pounds.
Some rust present, but the lads who last had her apart were generous with the oil and grease. Zero pitting or problems, just dried grease and paint adhesion.
Flushed with success, we move to the breechblock itself.
After tapping out the Breech Operating Handle Buffer, the handle itself is free to come all the way down, which allows the breech block to drop off the bottom of the gun into the hands of a helpful MWO who happened to be wandering by. Thanks again, mate.
Looks horrifying, I know, but most of that was dried grease and oil and came off with gentle scraping using a razor blade. There's very little if any rust on that breechblock. Weighs a good 60 pounds.
Underside of the block, in case you dig numbers. Many stamps on this old girl. The cartouche aficionados among us would be thrilled.
I also pulled the firing linkage off the port side of the breech ring - two heavy brass fittings and a big ol' steel pushrod to run the whole train, all of it painted green.
Took the firing linkage and firing block home for teardown, cleaning, paint stripping, relubrication, and affection. Teaching the CFSC this weekend, so I lose two days, but come Monday I should have more pics.
Quick question - I want to get that grisly green paint off the entire breech end of things. They were operated in the white, and in combination with the heavy brass fittings, probably looked pretty damned regal. Any suggestions re: paint stripper that's kind to steel and brass?
Automotive paint thinner will strip it ,by soaking the pices that need it sand the painted parts to rough them up some, then soak them if you ar un able remove larger parts lay a rag wetted with thiner over it , it may take several trys . I have done this many times it will not harm( etch ot dis color metals ) do this in a well ventalated areas !
Neet project !
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Fresh pics coming.
Had a bit of a mob form last night, which was enormously helpful.
Got the breech ring clear of the gun, the extractors out and cleaned up, and the muzzle brake off. Received a HUGE amount of help from the lads in the Service Bay who were kind enough to let us use their varsol bath to degrease various bits that desperately needed it.
The muzzle brake was spun off by the largest (and likely most pleasant) Chaplain I have ever met, in conjunction with two hard workin' young fellows. Many thanks, folks.
A herd of fearsomely dedicated and wiry gunners, engineers, and assorted other Canpat'd folk lent their expertise and brawn to scrubbing the bore, which is a sad, sad rusty tube of a thing. She's soaking now, and will until next week when we hope to scrub her out some more.
Next phase is cleaning up the breech block, firing block, breech ring, and "loud switch" in prep for re-installation. I want 'em naked and shiny, like God and the Canadian Ordnance Corps intended.
Gotta say, I've been made to feel very welcome. It's seldom I've worked with a group of individuals as uniformly decent as this one. I'm very pleased to be doing something for the outfit.
Had a bit of a mob form last night, which was enormously helpful.
Got the breech ring clear of the gun, the extractors out and cleaned up, and the muzzle brake off. Received a HUGE amount of help from the lads in the Service Bay who were kind enough to let us use their varsol bath to degrease various bits that desperately needed it.
The muzzle brake was spun off by the largest (and likely most pleasant) Chaplain I have ever met, in conjunction with two hard workin' young fellows. Many thanks, folks.
A herd of fearsomely dedicated and wiry gunners, engineers, and assorted other Canpat'd folk lent their expertise and brawn to scrubbing the bore, which is a sad, sad rusty tube of a thing. She's soaking now, and will until next week when we hope to scrub her out some more.
Next phase is cleaning up the breech block, firing block, breech ring, and "loud switch" in prep for re-installation. I want 'em naked and shiny, like God and the Canadian Ordnance Corps intended.
Gotta say, I've been made to feel very welcome. It's seldom I've worked with a group of individuals as uniformly decent as this one. I'm very pleased to be doing something for the outfit.
They have the whole sight assembly - that has to be a tough find item. Would be worth having a buddy in the UK buy it and ship it to you. The dealer won't ship the thing (weight?) from the looks of their site.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I found "range scale cone".I imagine that's artillery specific version of mechanical calculator for determining range/load combo (firing solution?).
I'll have to look in my odds and ends drawer... I'm pretty sure I have the "direct fire" telescope in there somewhere...
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Had a friend of the Regiment who happened to be in the UK earlier this week contact Helston. he asked about that very piece. Two issues - the damn thing weighs seventy pounds and will be a PITA to shift. The other shocking news we had was that Helston's stated price of 350 GBP is actually wrong. They want 750 GBP, sorry about that, cash be OK...?
Still hunting for the right piece at the right price. Rather not deal with someone who asks me to hit a moving target with my wallet.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
That'd be awesome, Mike, and much appreciated. Let me know what you find out and we'll arrange something.
That sounds to me like a bait and switch operation. Not cool.
Throw them an offer and see if they bite or not, I doubt there is not a big demand for 25 pdr sights. Also see if it can be taken apart and mailed out in two/three parcels. Sometimes just buying a complete unit is far less painful then chasing a bunch of pieces to cobble something together again. Just look at high cost (rare ?) items as "the price of admission" to whatever you are into.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
There were 3 correct scopes for the 25 pounder. There is the no29 scope, of which Canada made none. Then there is the later no41 scope, also used on the 17 pounder. REL in Canada made those, which is what I am hoping to find yet for my own 25 pounder. Lastly is the very common no22 telescope, which was used for direct firing for just about everything but you have to have an adapter to fit it onto the 25 pdr mount, since it is a much smaller diameter. I have the adapter and a REL Cdn no22 example for one of mine. You will also need the larger telescope case for the 22, or the standard case for the other two scopes, as one is needed to strap to the brackets on the front shield.
Funny how the price went up. I had a UK resident buy one for me about a month or two back, and in fact got the exact one in their photo in their ad. It cost £350 + another £60 to ship to him. From there it will be exported in a sea container of tank parts coming over this spring.
I was warned by another colelctor in the UK that Helstons were funny to deal with, if you could deal with them at all.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
OK, pix from last Wednesday.
Step one - lighten up the breech ring as much as possible. Let's get the extractors and associated bits free of 'er. Pull that big-arse nut on the Breech Actuation Handle and pop the 1+" diameter pin oit of the block to the left. Catch bits as they come free.
Before:
After:
Good design. Easy, big husky parts, built to last indefinitely. Easy to work with in the dark or with cold hands or when Fritz is Coming. So what do we have?
Extractors, left and right, plus the big ol' bolt that holds them in the gun and transfers torque from the BA handle. Sandwiched between, this bit:
That keeps the breech cammed shut when the handle's all the way forward. Really, this is just a big-assed falling block action, not nearly so complex as a Sharps.
Here, my son channels his inner Khyber Pass Child Labourer/Apprentice Gunsmith and gently returns the bits to an acceptable state. He's fighting dried grease and about half a cup of sand that found its way in. Dental tools were key to the operation.
Note that each extractor is clearly labelled in 20-point font:
No screwing that up.
With the breech ring gutted and as light as it could get, time to spin it off. Sorry, no pix of the operation. We were pretty busy watching the Padre wrassle with the thing. But here's the back end of the barrel.
Buck naked and covered in a thin layer of grease. Nothing Freudian about that. Note the complete absence of corrosion. Whoever tucked her in for her nap read and followed the manual, God bless 'em.
And off to the front of the gun, where the Padre again channelled the Power of the Spirits and spun the muzzle brake off.
Note the hint of rust at the muzzle. That's indicative of the best of it. The floor of the chamber area looks like the bottom of a gravel pit. She's soaking in CLP right now awaiting next Wednesday's labours. I fear she'll need something stronger, perhaps a 90mm wide ball of steel wool on a drill. Poor old thing. We'll get her running, and soon.
Onward,
Dan
Step one - lighten up the breech ring as much as possible. Let's get the extractors and associated bits free of 'er. Pull that big-arse nut on the Breech Actuation Handle and pop the 1+" diameter pin oit of the block to the left. Catch bits as they come free.
Before:
After:
Good design. Easy, big husky parts, built to last indefinitely. Easy to work with in the dark or with cold hands or when Fritz is Coming. So what do we have?
Extractors, left and right, plus the big ol' bolt that holds them in the gun and transfers torque from the BA handle. Sandwiched between, this bit:
That keeps the breech cammed shut when the handle's all the way forward. Really, this is just a big-assed falling block action, not nearly so complex as a Sharps.
Here, my son channels his inner Khyber Pass Child Labourer/Apprentice Gunsmith and gently returns the bits to an acceptable state. He's fighting dried grease and about half a cup of sand that found its way in. Dental tools were key to the operation.
Note that each extractor is clearly labelled in 20-point font:
No screwing that up.
With the breech ring gutted and as light as it could get, time to spin it off. Sorry, no pix of the operation. We were pretty busy watching the Padre wrassle with the thing. But here's the back end of the barrel.
Buck naked and covered in a thin layer of grease. Nothing Freudian about that. Note the complete absence of corrosion. Whoever tucked her in for her nap read and followed the manual, God bless 'em.
And off to the front of the gun, where the Padre again channelled the Power of the Spirits and spun the muzzle brake off.
Note the hint of rust at the muzzle. That's indicative of the best of it. The floor of the chamber area looks like the bottom of a gravel pit. She's soaking in CLP right now awaiting next Wednesday's labours. I fear she'll need something stronger, perhaps a 90mm wide ball of steel wool on a drill. Poor old thing. We'll get her running, and soon.
Onward,
Dan
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Looks like Helston's has now settled on a price of £650 for the sight mount. The price has changed on their website. It is my understanding that Helston's export problems are the UK controls on exporting stuff like this, not just a matter of the weight. But trying to get all the pieces to make one of these would be a very very long and expensive task.
Man, I'm sure glad I got mine before that price increase. End of the day, if it's something you gotta have, then you pay the price. You might look for a long time for another.
I did see one listed at a museum closeout in Australia, but if you think the mount is expensive, wait until you deal with the postage costs from the UK or Australia.
Last edited:
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Very true, mate, all of it.
Thankfully, I have the financial support of a Society, and they're interested in seeing this done right. £650 is a mighty big number, though. We're going to have to work up to that.
Last week we attempted paint stripping and were surprised to find the nasty-ass paint stripper worked beautifully on the green paint we could see, but didn't do a damn thing to the red primer beneath. That primer was sprayed on to a sandblasted finish, and so every molecule of that sh!t has a lovely little microscopic home to cling to. I'm going to have to force it out using soda blasting of a flap wheel on a drill. It can't stay as it is, and I'm not going to be responsible for painting it again. One should only make mistakes once.
Took this week off to rest. Back at it again next week. That chamber needs some love.
Thankfully, I have the financial support of a Society, and they're interested in seeing this done right. £650 is a mighty big number, though. We're going to have to work up to that.
Last week we attempted paint stripping and were surprised to find the nasty-ass paint stripper worked beautifully on the green paint we could see, but didn't do a damn thing to the red primer beneath. That primer was sprayed on to a sandblasted finish, and so every molecule of that sh!t has a lovely little microscopic home to cling to. I'm going to have to force it out using soda blasting of a flap wheel on a drill. It can't stay as it is, and I'm not going to be responsible for painting it again. One should only make mistakes once.
Took this week off to rest. Back at it again next week. That chamber needs some love.
he 15th FD Reg used to have a 25 pounder gun as a Colour Gun as you came in the main door.
That might be useful as a reference if needed.
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei...&gws_rd=ssl#q=bessborough+armory+vancouver+bc
That might be useful as a reference if needed.
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei...&gws_rd=ssl#q=bessborough+armory+vancouver+bc
