Your Favourite Swiss Arm Classic Green Load?

rdgietz

rdgietz

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Winnipeg, Manitoba
Ok guys and gals..

I have been struggling to develop a load for my used Swiss Arms Classic green.. Started with 77 grain bullets with Varget, RL 15, and Exterminator, Benchmark and TAC powders. Nothing close to the sub MOA groups i am supposed to get. Got some good groups with Factory RP 45 grain rounds.. Not Sub MOA but close. I just spent the whole day at the range testing out new loads with 53 grain Hornady Match 224 bullets over Benchmark and TAC but so far nothing close to sub MOA groups.. So i am Asking.. What bullet and powder combinations works best in these rifles.. I bought it used from a friend who bought it off EE. I even tried his load for his DPMS 24 inch AR, which he shoots golf balls at 200 yards.. No luck.. those were 69 gr behind Varget. I even bought some 75 gr Bergers VLDs and no luck with these either..

I am loading all my own ammo.. I use a Forester Press with Dillon Dies... Use Federal match small rifle primers.. Wincherster brass .. Full length resized.. Cut to 1.752. Champhered in and out... I have a really expensive scale that has 4 decimal places so this is not the problem. I have a chrony too so i know the velocities.. most are consistant... for a powder group.

Help me please.. I thought these rifles were tack drivers.. but so far mine is NOT!!!! Any suggestions would be appreciated..

Do i need 55 gr bullets.. or heavier? Would appreciate some advice.. Thanks in advance..

RDG
 
From what I've been told (because I haven't started loading for my SAN yet) they have a 1:10" twist which shoots bullets around 65 grains best. I have some 65gr SGKs to try and soem 64gr Bergers. I think one of them will shoot well. I think you've got teh right powder selection so it's a matter of playing with bullets to fing the best for your application. Are you going to hunt with it (deer, not sod ratas) or just gophers and paper?

69gr GMM worked decently for me but I'll be damned if I'll shoot that stuff all day long, pricey as it is!
 
Just shooting paper with this gun...

BigUglyMan said:
From what I've been told (because I haven't started loading for my SAN yet) they have a 1:10" twist which shoots bullets around 65 grains best. I have some 65gr SGKs to try and soem 64gr Bergers. I think one of them will shoot well. I think you've got teh right powder selection so it's a matter of playing with bullets to fing the best for your application. Are you going to hunt with it (deer, not sod ratas) or just gophers and paper?

69gr GMM worked decently for me but I'll be damned if I'll shoot that stuff all day long, pricey as it is!
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Well i am just shooting paper with it.. as in IDPA competitions and Pin matches.. I also have some 65 gr Sierra Game Kings.. i want to try.. I may be blasting some Yotes as well next fall.. but mainly paper targets.. the twist is 1/7...

rdg
 
Dan, try a 69 gr Sierra Matchking or Hornady Amax on top of about 25-26gr of varget or 23-24gr of Benchmark. All those combinations work just fine in my CG. Mine's a 1-10" twist so with your faster twist you should have no trouble making those loads work.

With the 1-7 twist you couls also try the 70 gr Lapua Scenar. I tried but could not get them to group in mine. the 1-10" twist was just a bit to slow.
 
prairieguy said:
Dan, try a 69 gr Sierra Matchking or Hornady Amax on top of about 25-26gr of varget or 23-24gr of Benchmark. All those combinations work just fine in my CG. Mine's a 1-10" twist so with your faster twist you should have no trouble making those loads work.

With the 1-7 twist you couls also try the 70 gr Lapua Scenar. I tried but could not get them to group in mine. the 1-10" twist was just a bit to slow.
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I will give that try.. What is your OAL.. i was using 2.250...
 
Huh.

I throw whatever I can get my hands on down the pipe of my Classic Green Carbine and when I am so inclined I get sub MOA groups out to 200m (you know, prone bagged in all that jazz...)
 
rdgietz said:
Sorry i should have said .... it is 1/7 and 18 inch barrel (I think.. never measured it)
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Might wanna check that. Carbines (14.3" and 17.8") come in 1/7 twist I believe, but all full length rifles I've seen are 1/10", unless it's been re-barreled.

If you're thinking about blasting yotes, it must be the full rifle, because all the other models are restricted. ;)
 
canucklehead said:
Might wanna check that. Carbines (14.3" and 17.8") come in 1/7 twist I believe, but all full length rifles I've seen are 1/10", unless it's been re-barreled.

If you're thinking about blasting yotes, it must be the full rifle, because all the other models are restricted. ;)
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Never noticed he said it was a full-length rifle... thought he mentioned 18" (17.9"). That would be a 1:7 Carbine... maybe I missed it though. Also I am pretty sure they made export 1:7 Rifles for NATO SS109 (SG55x-2). Not sure if these are in Canada though, so I should clam up :p.

Cr@p, just read your last sentence - got your point now. I'll shut-up ;).
Cheers!
 
I try to keep them seated long but still mag length. OAL is 2.280

With a 1-7" twist you can shoot even heavier bullets like the 80 gr SMK or Berger VLD. I doubt those will feed from the mag. If you can find some 77gr SMK you could work up a load that wil be mag fed and roughly replicate the US Mk262Mod0 ammo.
 
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prairieguy said:
I try to keep them seated long but still mag length. OAL is 2.280

With a `-7 twist you can shoot even heavier bullets like the 80 gr SMK or Berger VLD. I doubt those will feed from the mag. If you can find some 77gr SMK you could work up a load that wil be mag fed and roughly replicate the US Mk262Mod0 ammo.
Click to expand...

I have heard about that stuff. 3rd Brigade likes it a lot. Apparently out of thier M16A3DMRs they're reporting one shot stops at 800m or so.
 
Shooting off a Rest

Maple Leaf Pilgrim said:
Huh.

I throw whatever I can get my hands on down the pipe of my Classic Green Carbine and when I am so inclined I get sub MOA groups out to 200m (you know, prone bagged in all that jazz...)
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HI there.. I am shooting off a rest... The gun virtually does not move when i take a shot.. I have done lots of long range shooting years ago.. Ground hogs up to 500 yards.. Thats why this gun is driving me crazy...

Dan
 
Finally measured the barrel

canucklehead said:
Might wanna check that. Carbines (14.3" and 17.8") come in 1/7 twist I believe, but all full length rifles I've seen are 1/10", unless it's been re-barreled.

If you're thinking about blasting yotes, it must be the full rifle, because all the other models are restricted. ;)
Click to expand...


Ok The barrel 20.8 inches in length.. Non restricted.. which is says on my papers.. and the barrel is 1/7 twist.. i measured it.
 
OAL and bullets

prairieguy said:
I try to keep them seated long but still mag length. OAL is 2.280

With a 1-7" twist you can shoot even heavier bullets like the 80 gr SMK or Berger VLD. I doubt those will feed from the mag. If you can find some 77gr SMK you could work up a load that wil be mag fed and roughly replicate the US Mk262Mod0 ammo.
Click to expand...

Hi..

I have been messing around with the OAL as i know there is a sweet spot in some rifles.. I have taken it out to 2.305 and they still fit and feed from the mags ok...

Bullets used so far..

77 gr SMKs in front of Varget or RL 15 or Benchmark or Xterm OAL 2.260
second effort OAL was 2.305 which feed ok

75 gr Hornady in front of RL 15 and Varget.. OAL of 2.260

Only the light load of RL15 (20 gr RL15 Vel of 2090 fps) gave a decent group Sub MOA but is not repeatable...

75 grain berger VLDs with Benchmark OAL of 2.305 did not shoot well 2-3 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards

53 grain Hornady HP Match behind Benchmark & TAC.

All did not give sub MOA groups.. Most groups over 1.5 inches I am getting that with factory ammo RP 45 grain hollow point.


Would like to know the specifications of that ammo you mentioned..Where can i get that..


RDG
 
RDG

Here's another though (since my first thoughts were useless:D). Are you resting on a front rest out on the forend or gas block? Perhaps rest on a pack or back back by the action (using factory 5 rd mags, of course). Maybe you're getting wierd behavior due to inconsistent forend pressure on the rest? After all, they're not free-floated.
 
BigUglyMan said:
RDG

Here's another though (since my first thoughts were useless:D). Are you resting on a front rest out on the forend or gas block? Perhaps rest on a pack or back back by the action (using factory 5 rd mags, of course). Maybe you're getting wierd behavior due to inconsistent forend pressure on the rest? After all, they're not free-floated.
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Yah maybe you are right... because the barrel is not free floating... i bet that could be the it... I am resting it on the fore stock... so maybe there is some pressure on the barrel.. Dont know what to do in competition tho.. rest on on action? perhaps....

I will try that..

RDG
 
Do I Crimp or not Crimp?

rdgietz said:
Yah maybe you are right... because the barrel is not free floating... i bet that could be the it... I am resting it on the fore stock... so maybe there is some pressure on the barrel.. Dont know what to do in competition tho.. rest on on action? perhaps....

I will try that..

RDG
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I M wondering if i should crimp or not crimp.. I was looking at the specs of the ammo mentioned in an earlier post.... and they use a 77 grain SMK with a Cannelure which is crimped.. should i be doing this?

RDG
 
Dan,

You should be able to rest the forend / use the bipod without too much degradation of accuracy. I shoot mine off the bipod and off a front rest under the forend and get more than acceptable accuracy.

I wonder if your expectations are too high. You are shooting a semi auto service rifle, albeit a very accurate one. Even the most meticulous handloader with tuned ammo is never going to get better than .75 MOA or so with any consistency. I've got mine shooting in the 1.25 MOA to .75 MOA range with most groups averaging just under 1 MOA.

Crimping is a necessity with a semi. It does not have to be much of a crimp but at least enough that you cannot feel a sharp case mouth lip on the brass. If you do not crimp you run the risk of the loading action pushing your bullets deep into the cases which will not help your accuracy problems one bit. Not crimping also increases the risk that you will get jams as the uncrimped case mouth may rub or bind against the chamber walls.

If you are going to shoot the 77 SMK with cannelure you need to be setting your OAL so the cannelure is just at the case mouth and crimp into the cannelure. You can't fiddle with seating depth on these.

I see from your list of bullets tried so far you've completely skipped over the 62-69 gr pills. Those are the most likely to produce top accuracy in the CG family of guns. Get some 69 gr SMK, put them on top of 25.5 gr of Varget with an OAL of 2.265 and shoot. you should get groups in the 1 MOA range plus or minus a bit either side.

Don't forget the Swiss designed the CG to shoot a 63 gr bullet. You can't get them unless you buy loaded Ruag ammo for big $ but the 69 gr SMK and Amax are excellent substitutes.
 
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