For a minute there I wasn't sure if you were typing about the BCL 102 or the ATRS Modern hunter. Eerie parallels with the pre order and having to dig for information. So far pretty similar for the first 75 versions, although frankly the BCL 102 seems to have had less issues than the MH first 75. So yes I guess we are in agreement regarding the perils of pre orders.
We have no idea right now if they have upped the quality control for the second series. The new fairly extensive redesign seems to indicate they are into making a fair amount of changes over the NEA branded product. The ambi controls I think really help BCL 102 to finish putting the nails in the MH coffin. It adds those check marks so many like to have even if they aren't going to use it. Plus it's one less thing that those willing to pay double the price as with the MH can use to try to justify the high price. The new logo looks much more professional and the upper/lower has a couple of nice features such as the flared magwell that the earlier version didn't have. I like the look and the new features of the newest version a fair amount over the original and I liked the original basic AR10 design.
Except you are not really pre-ordering a MH, at least not in the same way. The MH is a custom rifle that you decide what parts you want it put together with then you have to stand in line waiting for them to have time to gather your parts and assemble the rifle for you (small shop with limited staffing), so it's just ordering a rifle not a pre-order, no different than what any custom gun builder would do if you wanted a rifle built for you. There really are no similarities other than you have to wait for your rifle after you place your order/deposit.
The pre-orders that I don't like are for new to market or coming to market rack grade everyone gets the same thing mass produced rifle, Look at the APC, those came in at $4000 and if they had simply brought them in and put them on the website they would have sold a few then we would see the reports coming in about the weight, and poor setup for optics even though it did not come with irons as far as I remember. If people had known what they were getting and also saw them going up on the EE shortly after people started buying them the price would have come down quickly instead of pre-selling the whole order for top dollar. It works out great for the retailer and importer but the consumer kinda gets screwed.
Why not just wait for them to show up in the store, handle one, like it, like the positive reviews from others and making an informed decision. You throw a lot of money at them blindly the way we're doing things these days. Give them your money and hope that you get what you think you are buying. The 102 is like that, you've already paid for it and you don't even know what it's going to be, looks like a lot of changes from the Gen 1 but we don't know if it's all cosmetic or if they're actually addressing problems that the Gen 1 has.
I suppose that hopefully they are at least listening to feedback and trying to improve the product, I just hope that they don't just add some ambi crap and change some cosmetics, I'm hoping they ditch the "match" chamber in the rack grade barrel and improve the finishing in the carrier so they don't burn through a set of gas rings every hundred rounds.
Not sure what info about the MH you have to dig for, they post most of the info on their site and I'm sure a polite phone call with questions would get you any other info you desire.
The first batch of MH's did have some issues but ATRS addressed them quickly and offered any owner (original owner or not) free upgrade to the new model parts and dimensions including cutting the receiver for the cam pin clearance, fixing the charge handle, modifying the feed ramps to increase reliability, and a couple other small tweaks. Do you think that if the Gen 2 102 comes out and it works a lot better than the Gen 1 NEA/BCL will offer the same service to owners of Gen 1 rifles or are they just going to deal with warranty claims as they come up?
As I've said before, I love the AR-10 platform and this 102 is very close to what I owned before but with a NR tag hanging off it, I would really like to own one of these but I'm not throwing money at one until NEA/BCL gets their crap together and starts producing a consistently good product. I don't care about the accuracy, I just want a reliable platform that I can customize the way I want to and if I want better accuracy I have no problem buying and installing a better barrel. What I don't want is to spend $1800 on a rifle then either send it back once or twice before it actually works as advertised or suck it up and just pour money into it and treat it like an $1800 upper/lower. If I have to do that then the rifle should be $1000 or less.
I agree, the new pics look nice, I hope there are some changes on the inside to go with the nice new outside though.
Maybe this special form of a Jam that kept repeating on mine is why they redesigned the brass deflector.
Just some Insight on my experience with the BCL 102 first batch:
Two co-workers and I preordered them as soon as the pre-order went live- One Black and two FDE models.
The Black model was the first to show up, it has a nice finish, none of the tooling marks that have been talked about, and a trigger that makes my geissele feel like an unnecessary upgrade. With the initial excitement worn off, I decided The stock was cheap, the grip was plastic, so I ran out and bought some replacement parts for when my FDE showed up.
The First FDE rifle showed up next and fired flawlessly on the 300+ rounds that were put through it from a bench and was a ton of fun. Trigger felt like any off the shelf AR15 trigger- Not really good, but shootable.
My FDE model was the next to arrive and I loved the finish, it matched nicely with Magpul FDE. My trigger was BRUTAL! the worst Ar15 trigger I have felt! I actually stripped it down and re installed it just to see if something was missed! When that didn't work, I ordered a Geiselle Two stage which really improved the rifle. My Rifle also had all the tooling marks that others have reported and the charging handle was brutal (sharp edges) and the bolt took alot of effort to pull out of battery. My first trip out to the range, with Factory American Eagle ammo, produced the malfunction that you see above over and over again, I could never get through a five round mag. Shooting the Rifle off hand, I found that it is front heavy, and much more suited to a DMR role. It has not been back to the range since, and I am not to sure what to do with it- I just don't feel excited about it.
What I think they need to change:
- Lighten up the barrel.
- Take material out of the handguard- it is built tough!
- Put a half decent stock on it
- Fix the QC issues
- Edges are sharp, could use some TLC before leaving the factory.
- Sell these just as a receiver set.
I get that these are "Lego guns" and everything can be changed to match the user preferences. However, from what I see, most users are adding hundreds, if not thousands of parts to make these likeable. The changes that they are doing on this run definetely make me not want to be the guinea pig for a pre-order/pre-made rifle in Canada ever again. We were told that we would not be getting an ambi mag release, but not that they would be fine tuning and changing every aspect of the rifle for the second batch.
Check your ejector plunger spring.
If you remove the bolt and hook an empty cartridge under the extractor and then push it in straight so it's sitting flat against the bolt face, let the cartridge go pointed in a safe direction so it doesn't break anything in the room when it flies off to the right. It should flick the empty pretty decently, if it just flops over and falls out you need to replace the ejector spring
