** Your NEA102 build **

cr5 said:
Except an ACR is accurate and reliable out of the box, all of them, not just a few lucky ones. Picking up a used one and converting it to NR can be done for under $3000. From the sounds of most of the shopping lists people have on here a 102 is going to cost around the same or more.

Yes there is, just not as many people are willing to spend $3500+ up front for one that has less options for LEGO play even though it comes pretty well equipped and doesn't need $1500+ worth of upgrades.

Good plan, expect to see 1.5-2 moa when you find ammo the barrel likes and 3-5 moa from cheap crap and you'll be happy. When you want to shoot groups take your time and try not to let the barrel get hot.
I know there have been a couple reports so far of guys doing better than that but one lucky group does not make it a 1 moa rifle. Consistent groups under 2 moa are pretty respectable for a rifle with a mediocre barrel like these have. For comparison my Proof Research barrel on my Modern Hunter has only given me a 1.4 moa 10 shot group so far with handloads, I'm still refining my load and I probably could have done a little better if I slowed down and really concentrated but so far that's the best I've seen from it. I just loaded some more testers earlier this evening I'll be shooting tomorrow so I'm hoping to see an improvement.
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Umm, your MH has the proof research barrel? So you went with the $1075 upgrade. If cerekoted another $75 and then you still need a flash hider etc. $135 for a muzzle brake. Pretty close to 5K right there. That still leaves it with an A2 stock, A2 pistol grip and DPMS garbage handguard.

The base model is $3650 and you added how much in upgrades to your MH? :confused: I'm guessing you're at over 5K. Apparently you thought it did in fact need $1500+ in upgrades after all!! :evil:

Just goes to show you. Upgrading seems to be a common phenomena with the AR platform.

I'll see how it shoots. I'll have to deal with the trigger first, but likely that's the only thing I'll change from the start. I'm pretty sure I know the barrel blank and it's decent enough. Just waiting for the IOP pricing. I'm not expecting KAC/LMT here at this pricing. The same way I wouldn't expect DPMS inside if I paid for something that was supposed to be KAC/LMT quality.
 
Bartok5 said:
Lots of folks investing big bucks in rifles that will likely end up on the Restricted list along with all of the other currently NR centre-fire offerings. I would simply scope it, swap out the trigger and shoot it, enjoying the NR status for as long as possible. If the Liberals win a second majority I fully expect the reclassification of NR centre-fire rifles to occur in a repeat of the late 1980s/early 1990s. To be followed 2 years later by Prohibition with Grandfathering. And so it will go, just like it did a generation before this one. Enough time has obviously passed for memories to fade, judging by the large number of "ostriches" on CGN these days who refuse to even acknowledge the Liberal disarmament agenda....
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Most of us are acutely aware of the liberal disarmament agenda...it’s just that many of us don’t let the chicken Little’s of the world dictate what we spend our money on; if we did, we probably wouldn’t own any restricted black rifles either...or handguns.
You’re too afraid to invest more than a scope and new trigger in your 102? That’s perfectly fine, more goodies for the rest of us. Just don’t assume that people who refuse to live in fear of what the liberals might do are not paying attention or have forgotten the past.
 
Epoxy7 said:
Umm, your MH has the proof research barrel? So you went with the $1075 upgrade. If cerekoted another $75 and then you still need a flash hider etc. $135 for a muzzle brake. Pretty close to 5K right there. That still leaves it with an A2 stock, A2 pistol grip and DPMS garbage handguard.

The base model is $3650 and you added how much in upgrades to your MH? :confused: I'm guessing you're at over 5K. Apparently you thought it did in fact need $1500+ in upgrades after all!! :evil:

Just goes to show you. Upgrading seems to be a common phenomena with the AR platform.

I'll see how it shoots. I'll have to deal with the trigger first, but likely that's the only thing I'll change from the start. I'm pretty sure I know the barrel blank and it's decent enough. Just waiting for the IOP pricing. I'm not expecting KAC/LMT here at this pricing. The same way I wouldn't expect DPMS inside if I paid for something that was supposed to be KAC/LMT quality.
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I bought mine used and didn't pay much more than the base model MH. No way I'd spend $6k on a rifle like this, it's more of a toy for me since I don't care to hunt with a heavy expensive rifle when I have a perfectly good Rem 700 sitting in the safe ready to take deer with.

If you check out the accuracy testing Jerry has done so far on the Mystic page you will see that the barrels supplied on the 102 are not consistent at all once they start to heat up, he states that if you do your part and have a load the barrel likes you can expect about 1.5-2 moa consistently if you take your time so the barrel doesn't get hot. Considering the low cost of the rifle I don't expect much better than this and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I just know that for whatever reason many people on this site seem to think that any rifle over $1000 that won't shoot 1 moa or better is a pos and not worth buying but when it comes to this rifle they're willing to overlook that and just throw money at it to correct it's deficiencies.


Bartok5 said:
Lots of folks investing big bucks in rifles that will likely end up on the Restricted list along with all of the other currently NR centre-fire offerings. I would simply scope it, swap out the trigger and shoot it, enjoying the NR status for as long as possible. If the Liberals win a second majority I fully expect the reclassification of NR centre-fire rifles to occur in a repeat of the late 1980s/early 1990s. To be followed 2 years later by Prohibition with Grandfathering. And so it will go, just like it did a generation before this one. Enough time has obviously passed for memories to fade, judging by the large number of "ostriches" on CGN these days who refuse to even acknowledge the Liberal disarmament agenda....
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I honestly think disarmament is on all political parties agenda, it's just the Lieberals are the most honest about it and use world tragedies to scare the sheep into going along with it.
Myself and many others are simply not willing to live in fear of it and choose to enjoy what we can while we can. If the day comes we'll worry about it at that time and fight back however we can but at least we'll have had those things that you are passing by out of fear that they'll some day be taken away. You realize that the government can come and take away your house if they want to? Even if it's completely paid off. Does that stop you from taking out a $400000+ mortgage and slaving away at a job you'd rather not do just to give a good percentage away to taxes and try to pay off the house with what's left before retirement?
Even though I hardly ever use my restricted stuff I will never get rid of it all since it adds to the number of people they can see on the records that they will piss off and lose the vote of. Everything they do is an attempt to get more votes, there is no other motivation, and since there are a lot more sheep than wolves they'll appease the sheep who are also easier to manipulate with fear.
It's just money, they already take 40% off the top, if they take away a few thousand dollars worth of rifles it's not the end of the world, you'll still go to work and pay your taxes and be in the same financial situation you're in right now, you'll just have one less hobby.
Buy restricted firearms to show them how many votes they'll lose, enjoy what you can while you can. It's just money and you can't take it with you in the end.
 
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I'm loving mine. Get a kick out of the folks who crap on it for not being sub-MOA capable. Who cares? Not me, at least. Certainly, others may care. I have rifles set up for that.

Can I smack something and fill the freezer? Reliably? At the ranges I deem ethical shots, for me? Seems that is covered. I am satisfied.

And who knows what the real potential is at this point in time, anyway? There have been a limited number of rounds only, fired in a controlled setting. As a percent of what options can be used, load combinations, etc., the testing is so far limited.

It is not a precision rifle, or marketed as such, as far as my own personal interpretation goes. It will be interesting to see what Jerry at Mystic can get out of it, for sure.

But damn, I like it!
 
I am getting very very close to consistent MOA with my handload development and enjoying my 102 more and more every time I pull the trigger.

I have only had one FTF and that was on the first round and likely on me for short stroking the charging handle.

Other than that it has performed 100% reliability wise for over 400 rounds (ya I realize this means nothing statistically speaking).

If you don't want one, heck, don't by one.

To each their own.
 
Markit said:
I am getting very very close to consistent MOA with my handload development and enjoying my 102 more and more every time I pull the trigger.

I have only had one FTF and that was on the first round and likely on me for short stroking the charging handle.

Other than that it has performed 100% reliability wise for over 400 rounds (ya I realize this means nothing statistically speaking).

If you don't want one, heck, don't by one.

To each their own.
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What projectiles and powder are you using? Rate of fire to get consistent results? I'll pass it along to Jerry and maybe if there is enough money left in the pot and if he has the time and motivation we can add to the testing. So far it looks like heat is this barrels enemy, it shows potential but only if the barrel remains fairly consistent in temperature.
400 rounds may not be a lot in the big picture but that's definitely enough to know you got a Wednesday gun not a Friday afternoon gun.

Sunchild2071 said:
I'm loving mine. Get a kick out of the folks who crap on it for not being sub-MOA capable. Who cares? Not me, at least. Certainly, others may care. I have rifles set up for that.

Can I smack something and fill the freezer? Reliably? At the ranges I deem ethical shots, for me? Seems that is covered. I am satisfied.

And who knows what the real potential is at this point in time, anyway? There have been a limited number of rounds only, fired in a controlled setting. As a percent of what options can be used, load combinations, etc., the testing is so far limited.

It is not a precision rifle, or marketed as such, as far as my own personal interpretation goes. It will be interesting to see what Jerry at Mystic can get out of it, for sure.

But damn, I like it!
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I'm pretty sure that before anyone got their hands on one NEA/BCL claimed it was 1 moa capable.
Regardless of it being 1 moa capable or not I'm more concerned with the reliability issues a few people have right out of the box. It was a very poor decision on their part to give this a tight "match" chamber, these need to be reliable more than they need the fraction of an moa increase in accuracy potential a tight chamber will give them. The Modern Hunter suffers the same issues which causes them to be finicky with ammo.
If NEA/BCL was making them with proper QC and we hadn't already heard of guys with warranty issues I would be a lot more inclined to purchase one, but I'm not willing to buy a rifle then spend another few hundred just to make it run reliably. I'd like to spend my money on personal setup preferences not just to make a new rifle work the way it should have from the manufacturer. Yes, there are quite a few that work well out of the box, it's the others that worry me, I don't feel like spending $2000 and rolling the dice to be one of the lucky ones that gets a good one.
 
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cr5 said:
I bought mine used and didn't pay much more than the base model MH. No way I'd spend $6k on a rifle like this, it's more of a toy for me since I don't care to hunt with a heavy expensive rifle when I have a perfectly good Rem 700 sitting in the safe ready to take deer with.

If you check out the accuracy testing Jerry has done so far on the Mystic page you will see that the barrels supplied on the 102 are not consistent at all once they start to heat up, he states that if you do your part and have a load the barrel likes you can expect about 1.5-2 moa consistently if you take your time so the barrel doesn't get hot. Considering the low cost of the rifle I don't expect much better than this and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I just know that for whatever reason many people on this site seem to think that any rifle over $1000 that won't shoot 1 moa or better is a pos and not worth buying but when it comes to this rifle they're willing to overlook that and just throw money at it to correct it's deficiencies.
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The fact is your rifle is far from stock/base and someone paid the big bucks for it initially. In other words the same thing you brought up regarding BCL 102 owners modifying their rifles. I know you were trying to make it seem as if the BCL 102 isn't accurate or reliable which was the reason for people looking to modify it. But we all know with AR rifles that the huge aftermarket is based on people wanting to hot rod their rifles or customize them to their tastes. With it's current price point you can modify it to your heart's content without paying through the nose for it. It's kind of nice to have a non restricted option that comes in at the same price point as the lowest priced restricted offerings.

I don't get your "hunting" aspect. I have a bunch of these types of rifles, including a KAC SR25 which retails for over 6K. They are all restricted and none of them are for hunting. These rifles currently shine as tactical precision rifles. Not hunting rifles. If you want to hunt with a non restricted rifle of this type, then cool. But I think the whole "hunting" part is really a red herring. These rifles are no different to me than my Remington 5R milspecs. Except they are semi auto.

Jerry's accuracy testing lost me at the 250 yard testing and Powder: H4895 lot #5600. Sorry but.. that's not going to be the ticket for these rifles. Also with the shorter barrel length he's going to need a bit more to hit that accuracy node. Federal GM is based on 20-26" barrel velocities. 1:10 twist and 18.5" is what the BCL 102 is at. The US army has already spent millions doing the testing for 308. There's no point reinventing the wheel. It just needs tweaking.

A buddy and I sent in his Kel-Tec RFB back in the day. Jerry tested a bunch of stuff and the results weren't good. We used that base testing, did some research and came up with a round that gave 1.5 moa 5 round groups. We were actually even reloading at the range. It worked out very well. For an RFB that's pretty good and was better than the rounds Jerry tested. The testing that Jerry did for us on the RFB helped with the research/reloading so we didn't mess around with the stuff he already tested. It made it pretty easy to find the best round for the gun we could. As it turns out we did end up reinventing the wheel a bit. The US military had already done all the work for us. We just didn't know it. You guys are just going through the same thing, only about 7 or 8 years later. Frankly any attempt to get a number of you guys caught up has fallen on deaf ears. So I will watch, enjoy and once again reload mine based on what I've already learned/paid for. Don't get me wrong. I think it's a great project and like before I will look at the results with interest. I will also do what I did before and hope that history once again repeats itself.

If the rifle doesn't shoot then so be it. I won't try to cover it up or make excuses. It is what it is. Until I get my hands on one, I'm not writing it off. Jerry's testing is a great start. But as with the RFB, I don't think it's going to be the end.
 
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Does anyone have any plans of screwing on a match barrel? I saw a carbon fiber barrel, but it was 18 inches... Kinda makes me a little worried about an overzealous officer saying that it's shorter than 18 inches and so is therefore restricted.

I ordered an SLR Helix handguard that has arrived today, and grabbed a flat blade triggertech trigger for mine. I'm tempted to buy a Luth-AR stock. But maybe I'll look for a minimalist stock. I shouldered a bcl 102 and they are heavy... Hoping the SLR handguard shaves a pound off. A carbon fiber barrel ought to help with that as well.
 
Epoxy7 said:
The fact is your rifle is far from stock/base and someone paid the big bucks for it initially. In other words the same thing you brought up regarding BCL 102 owners modifying their rifles. I know you were trying to make it seem as if the BCL 102 isn't accurate or reliable which was the reason for people looking to modify it. But we all know with AR rifles that the huge aftermarket is based on people wanting to hot rod their rifles.

I don't get your "hunting" aspect. I have a bunch of these types of rifles, including a KAC SR25 which retails for over 6K. They are all restricted and none of them are for hunting. These rifles currently shine as tactical precision rifles. Not hunting rifles. If you want to hunt with them, then cool. But I think the whole "hunting" part is really a red herring. These rifles are no different to me than my Remington 5R milspecs. Except they are semi auto.

Jerry's accuracy testing lost me at the 250 yard testing and Powder: H4895 lot #5600. Sorry but.. that's not going to be the ticket for these rifles. Also with the shorter barrel length he's going to need a bit more to hit that accuracy node. Federal GM is based on 20-26" barrel velocities. 1:10 twist and 18.5" is what the BCL 102 is at. The US army has already spent millions doing the testing for 308. There's no point reinventing the wheel. It just needs tweaking.

A buddy and I sent in his Kel-Tec RFB back in the day. Jerry tested a bunch of stuff and the results weren't good. We used that base testing, did some research and came up with a round that gave 1.5 moa 5 round groups. We were actually even reloading at the range. It worked out very well. The testing that Jerry did for us on the RFB helped with the research/reloading so we didn't mess around with the stuff he already tested. It made it pretty easy to find the best round for the gun we could. As it turns out we did end up reinventing the wheel a bit. The US military had already done all the work for us. We just didn't know it. You guys are just going through the same thing, only about 7 or 8 years later. Frankly any attempt to get you guys caught up has fallen on deaf ears. So I will watch, enjoy and once again reload mine based on what I've already learned/paid for. Don't get me wrong. I think it's a great project and like before I will look at the results with interest. I will also do what I did before and hope that history once again repeats itself.

If the rifle doesn't shoot then so be it. I won't try to cover it up or make excuses. It is what it is. Until I get my hands on one, I'm not writing it off. Jerry's testing is a great start. But as with the RFB, I don't think it's going to be the end.
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I only mention hunting with them because it sounds like many people want to do that with them since they are NR.
I bought my MH because I loved my AR-10's but hated only being able to use them at the range, this deal came up that I really couldn't say no to. I bought it and sold something else I wasn't using much and it worked out to cost me nothing out of pocket.

So if you know so much about loading for an 18.5 inch barrel why don't you share some knowledge with the rest of us? I have yet to hear you contribute any information to any thread about it. You like to point out other peoples errors but you don't help educate. What powders and projectiles weights should people be trying? I had my RFB shooting 1.5-2 moa with my handloads and I didn't do anything special, I'd have to check my logs but it was probably Varget under a 150-168gr pill, I even found a load with 110gr V-max that would shoot under 2 moa from the RFB and it just happened to shoot sub moa in my DPMS LR 308.
I know you have a lot of experience with this type of rifle, it would be nice to see you share some knowledge though rather than just tell people they're wrong. And no, I'm not saying to give load recipes just what powder and projectile weights people should start with so they don't waste a bunch of time and money reinventing the wheel as you put it.

And what's wrong with testing a 308 at 250yds? With a skilled shooter behind the trigger with enough magnification to ensure that distance is easy to hold dead center to me it sounds like a better way to show more accurate results, moa is moa at any distance and at 250yds a 308 should easily be consistent.
 
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cr5 said:
I only mention hunting with them because it sounds like many people want to do that with them since they are NR.
I bought my MH because I loved my AR-10's but hated only being able to use them at the range, this deal came up that I really couldn't say no to. I bought it and sold something else I wasn't using much and it worked out to cost me nothing out of pocket.

So if you know so much about loading for an 18.5 inch barrel why don't you share some knowledge with the rest of us? I have yet to hear you contribute any information to any thread about it. You like to point out other peoples errors but you don't help educate. What powders and projectiles weights should people be trying? I had my RFB shooting 1.5-2 moa with my handloads and I didn't do anything special, I'd have to check my logs but it was probably Varget under a 150-168gr pill, I even found a load with 110gr V-max that would shoot under 2 moa from the RFB and it just happened to shoot sub moa in my DPMS LR 308.
I know you have a lot of experience with this type of rifle, it would be nice to see you share some knowledge though rather than just tell people they're wrong. And no, I'm not saying to give load recipes just what powder and projectile weights people should start with so they don't waste a bunch of time and money reinventing the wheel as you put it.
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I've already posted the load data a number of times. I've listed the 4 factory rounds I would use and the various reloads. There was a big debate over the round choices on another BCL 102 thread in which I posted the entire history and the forumlas. But like this one you end up with people who tell you to take it to Pm's etc so they can continue on with whatever. I ended up deleting my posts. I'll post the results on another forum after I get mine and run it through it's paces.

By the way you are absolutely right, it's not hard and they are nothing special in terms of reloads. But accuracy is about removing the variables. .5 grains can make a big difference. When you mess around with different powders, OAL etc, you add more variables. I think people really try to over complicate this and bring in semi auto voodoo to help justify it.

What's wrong with testing at 250 yards? It's not the norm. It makes it harder to quickly determine if the groups are good or not. Plus the idea of testing is to eliminate as many variables as possible. You don't want to be chasing your tail trying to figure out what's going on. The more distance, the more variables there are and the more accentuated their effects are. I find 250 yards odd and It's not in my opinion ideal.

You have a DPMS Lr308? 1:10 24" bull barrel version? Might I suggest giving 167 Lapua a try. :cheers:

Don't get me wrong, I might not agree with you. But I do respect that you put in the effort with your posts and I'd rather debate this stuff with regards to the end result of the builds than the usual I'm going to put a new pistol grip etc on my BCL 102 crud posts. But.. once again the chime of "take it to Pms" has started. So why bother?

So to get this back to what people apparently want: I'l be changing out the stock, pistol grip and either modifying or changing out the trigger along with a tactical latch for the charging handle. Hopefully that will be all that is needed. Budget: $500. If the IOP pricing is good, I hope to be around $2000 before optics.
 
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saltednutz said:
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Much better. Now back on topic of the NEA/BCL 102 BUILD THREAD.

I was thinking of customizing my pistol grip fellas,

What do you think?

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What is that grip? And how much weight savings? :)

My pipe dream is to lighten my 102 by 3-4lbs... yeah, pipe dream, i know :)
 
cr5 said:
What projectiles and powder are you using? Rate of fire to get consistent results? I'll pass it along to Jerry and maybe if there is enough money left in the pot and if he has the time and motivation we can add to the testing. So far it looks like heat is this barrels enemy, it shows potential but only if the barrel remains fairly consistent in temperature.
400 rounds may not be a lot in the big picture but that's definitely enough to know you got a Wednesday gun not a Friday afternoon gun.



I'm pretty sure that before anyone got their hands on one NEA/BCL claimed it was 1 moa capable.
Regardless of it being 1 moa capable or not I'm more concerned with the reliability issues a few people have right out of the box. It was a very poor decision on their part to give this a tight "match" chamber, these need to be reliable more than they need the fraction of an moa increase in accuracy potential a tight chamber will give them. The Modern Hunter suffers the same issues which causes them to be finicky with ammo.
If NEA/BCL was making them with proper QC and we hadn't already heard of guys with warranty issues I would be a lot more inclined to purchase one, but I'm not willing to buy a rifle then spend another few hundred just to make it run reliably. I'd like to spend my money on personal setup preferences not just to make a new rifle work the way it should have from the manufacturer. Yes, there are quite a few that work well out of the box, it's the others that worry me, I don't feel like spending $2000 and rolling the dice to be one of the lucky ones that gets a good one.
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I already PMed Jerry with the loads and projectiles a week or so ago.

I posted the loads in a different post as well - am using RL15 with 155 Amax as well as Hornady 168 gr match hpbt projectiles.

Rate of fire is approx 1 round every 5 seconds or so.
 
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