Your thoughts on 303 Epps Improved?
- Thread starter steelgray
- Start date
Any idea if P-14s had less bore diameter variation? Any chance that the US producers of these guns cheated and used barrels more readily available to them - i.e., in .308 or so?
This, it isn't rocket science. Bores that are right on median spec will normally shoot better than those that aren't, as long as the bullet diameters are similar in dimension.
I've seen people that insist a 308 diameter bullet will shoot every bit as well in any 303 Brit chambered rifle as the larger .311-312 diameter bullets.
In some cases, very few, they will. For instance, all of the POF made No4 MkII rifles I've owned have had .310 bores. They shot .308 bullets OK .311 bullets very well, and .310 bullets better than I can hold.
Mini range review:
Last weekend I took two guns to the range to compare their accuracy. These were my birdseye Maple, one-piece stocked custom Epps No.4 as well as a newly-acquired P-14. I thought both were chambered in 303 British, so I loaded-up some brand new, 1972 vintage Herters 303 cases with IMR 4198 and steel core 150 grain pull down bullets from Chinese surplus X54R ammo. The big surprise came when I looked at my fired cases from the P-14 and observed that the gun had obviously been rechambered, by someone, to 303 Epps Improved.
As for the shooting comparison, both guns shot really well, delivering multiple 2-inch groups and - in fact - the P-14 delivered at least one group just over an inch, in spite of the fact that the brass was loose in the chamber - since it hadn’t been previously fireformed to 303 Epps Improved.
This range visit left me with 13 fired 303 British cases and another 13 fireformed 303 Epps Improved hulls.
Today, I set out to reload these 26 cases to make more ammo for the P-14. Having no 303 Epps Improved dies I bought a brand new 3 dies set of 300 Savage dies. Why? Because if you check, the front end of the 300 Savage case is almost dimensionally identical to 303 Epps Improved – especially if you sub a .311 expander into those 300 Savage dies. This, of course, means that you can basically use 300 Savage dies as sort of “neck and shoulder sizing dies” to reload 303 Epps Improved – as long as you adjust the depth of the sizing dies properly to get the shoulder where it needs to be for 303 Epps Improved.
The 26 brass hulls (half fireformed to 303 Epps Improved and the other half not) were loaded with pull down powder from Barnaul x54R ammo, together with various mixed projectiles and primers that had been recovered from previously waterlogged 308 Win rounds. These mixed projectiles fit the resized 303 Epps/ 303 British cases because I’d used the .308 expander in the 300 Savage dies. The bullets were various 150 and 125 grainers. The pull-down powder was measured with a Lee 3.1 CC dipper. Obviously, these mismatched reloads had no real business shooting well, but in fact they did.
The P-14 delivered the goods - even with this hodgepodge of ammo, loaded with .308 diameter bullets. Groups were 2” and up. Not as good as the results with the .311 150 grain steel core IMR4198 loads of days earlier, but definitely good enough to say this gun can shoot .308s. The other thing that worked-out well was that the Savage 300 die trick worked - and all the rounds went “BANG”, in spite of the fact that primers had all been recovered from previously water-soaked ammo.
Also, it was a nice day - and I had the range to myself. Life is good.
Last weekend I took two guns to the range to compare their accuracy. These were my birdseye Maple, one-piece stocked custom Epps No.4 as well as a newly-acquired P-14. I thought both were chambered in 303 British, so I loaded-up some brand new, 1972 vintage Herters 303 cases with IMR 4198 and steel core 150 grain pull down bullets from Chinese surplus X54R ammo. The big surprise came when I looked at my fired cases from the P-14 and observed that the gun had obviously been rechambered, by someone, to 303 Epps Improved.
As for the shooting comparison, both guns shot really well, delivering multiple 2-inch groups and - in fact - the P-14 delivered at least one group just over an inch, in spite of the fact that the brass was loose in the chamber - since it hadn’t been previously fireformed to 303 Epps Improved.
This range visit left me with 13 fired 303 British cases and another 13 fireformed 303 Epps Improved hulls.
Today, I set out to reload these 26 cases to make more ammo for the P-14. Having no 303 Epps Improved dies I bought a brand new 3 dies set of 300 Savage dies. Why? Because if you check, the front end of the 300 Savage case is almost dimensionally identical to 303 Epps Improved – especially if you sub a .311 expander into those 300 Savage dies. This, of course, means that you can basically use 300 Savage dies as sort of “neck and shoulder sizing dies” to reload 303 Epps Improved – as long as you adjust the depth of the sizing dies properly to get the shoulder where it needs to be for 303 Epps Improved.
The 26 brass hulls (half fireformed to 303 Epps Improved and the other half not) were loaded with pull down powder from Barnaul x54R ammo, together with various mixed projectiles and primers that had been recovered from previously waterlogged 308 Win rounds. These mixed projectiles fit the resized 303 Epps/ 303 British cases because I’d used the .308 expander in the 300 Savage dies. The bullets were various 150 and 125 grainers. The pull-down powder was measured with a Lee 3.1 CC dipper. Obviously, these mismatched reloads had no real business shooting well, but in fact they did.
The P-14 delivered the goods - even with this hodgepodge of ammo, loaded with .308 diameter bullets. Groups were 2” and up. Not as good as the results with the .311 150 grain steel core IMR4198 loads of days earlier, but definitely good enough to say this gun can shoot .308s. The other thing that worked-out well was that the Savage 300 die trick worked - and all the rounds went “BANG”, in spite of the fact that primers had all been recovered from previously water-soaked ammo.
Also, it was a nice day - and I had the range to myself. Life is good.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Memories to cherish to be sure.
- Location
- sudbury, ontario
What would you be asking for it $...
