Youth and IPSC

climbhigher

climbhigher

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My son (11) has decided he wants to shoot IPSC. I know the only restriction to age is the ability to control the firearm properly. He shoots my SR-9 regularly and while acuracy is not an issue, he regularly gets stove pipes. With my 40 S&W he does not get stovepipes but the accuracy wavers.
I was thinking of trying 147 gr 9mm to get the power factor with less powder, i am hoping this will solve the stove pipe issue.
Failing that, can anyone suggest a good pistol for the little guy? I was thinking 38 special, but he may have issues with the speed loader.
 
Revolver gets extra time on the Black Badge drills, if he's comfortable with it let him give it a go
 
While revolver is a fun gun to shoot IPSC with, the lack of competition and the 6 rounds reload, may well kill the interest in the sport in this young guy.

As for the stove pipes, have you tried to use a lighter recoil spring? 146gr bullets are also a good idea to make recoil softer and easier to shoot for a young shooter, or try the same with heavier .40 bullets, e.g. 180gr.

If he can handle some extra weight in the gun, get him try CZ or Tanfoglio guns, those are heavier and generally easier to handle recoil.
 
Climbhigher, watch the brass ejection when he's shooting. If he's getting fairly regular stovepiping I'll bet the rest of the time when the gun does work that the brass is ejecting weakly. If the brass is basically dribbling out of the gun compared to when you shoot it then you can tune it to your son by going for a lighter recoil spring so it lets the slide zip back with a bit more gusto.

In your hands the spring would be TOO weak and the slide would "crash" into the frame. But if your son doesn't have the arm mass to give enough resistance to the frame then the impact will be softened and it SHOULD get rid of the stovepipes when he shoots.

The same thing happens when some guns are suddenly fed barely legal power factor ammo. The ejection gets lazy and the odd stovepipe occurs even with adults. Switching to a lighter recoil spring fixes the issue.

Of course this means the gun would not then be set up for your shooting. But would it be the end of the world if you had to set up your SR-9 for your son and get another gun for yourself? Yeah, it's a tough job, but someone has to do it.... :D
 
I'd stick with a 9mm and in a shadow.. he may be limp wristing and causing poor cycling..maybe the shadows heavier front front weight with lighter slide (and slightly lighter recoil spring), may help him in this.. I'm not good with the tech part of guns...
can spring be change if shooting production, anyone ?
he should be able to handle the weight...revolvers are heavy too.
its important that the gun fit him well and he's comfortable with gun you choose... if so, he'll be fine with accuracy, and improve in time...
 
Colt' makes a good point. They don't come much lighter than the SR-9. A light gun depends a lot on the mass of the shooter's hands and forearms to hold the frame in place while the slide cycles. An all metal gun would be heavier for him to hold up but it would be affected a bit less by the lack of weight in his hands and arms.

Note that I'm not saying he's weak. Strong or weak has nothing to do with it. It's just a case of mass to resist the movement in the frame via shear inertia. I've seen women shoot guns that are usually very reliable and they get two or three stovepipes per mag. Telling them to "tighten their wrists" helps a little but from the way the brass just barely dribbles out of the gun it's obvious that it's about >< that far away from a stovepipe. This also shows up when these same women get to the end of the magazine and it's a 50-50 deal whether the slide runs back far enough to catch the slide stop or not.
 
The heavier gun makes sence, it would explain why when he is shooting my Taurus he has no problem. The SR-9 is fairly snappy and you can see his arms absorbing it. He gets about one stove pipe out of every five shots, and come to think of it the brass does end out pretty close to him.
Are the springs a fairly generic thing? Or are they brand name specific. Any idea where to pick one up in Canada?
 
If you do decide to get a new gun for him, see if you can't try the STI GP6. The rotary barrel lock up may help as the gun seems pretty forgiving of lighter loads.

The important thing is that he is comfortable and confident in his equipment.
 
my son started and competed with a CZ Shadow,..factory included recoil spring and had no issues. He was 12 I think,...or may be 13 back in early 2007. This was before he went thru the growth spurt.
 
try a heavier gun and don't be afraid to try a downloaded 45. i had a young fellow on a course years ago and his brother thoughts i was nuts but tried any way and downloaded his 45 to about 150 with a 11 pound spring and the young fellow shot it for two days with no problems.
 
Congrats to your son, love to see more juniors in the sport. FWIW my son also did his BB at 11, his first pistol was a NP28 in 9mm, at the time he was 4' 7" and a woping 73lbs, this lasted less than 6 months and he argued for a Para 16-40 which he shot well for 3 years untill he went open, seems like a lifetime ago. Agreeing with the above statements, recoil is an issue and tuning slide springs can work. My son and I still teach Handgun courses together and often discourage 9mm for new shooters simply because they tend to be snappy. We have many 9mm and enjoy shooting them but from my experience its not a starter, just my opinion, good luck and keep him shooting

Sig
DVC
 
curtdad said:
...My son and I still teach Handgun courses together and often discourage 9mm for new shooters simply because they tend to be snappy. We have many 9mm and enjoy shooting them but from my experience its not a starter, just my opinion, good luck and keep him shooting
Click to expand...

If you use 115gr bullet in a plastic gun, of course it will be snappy. With proper load 9mm can give a much softer recoil then .40 caliber, especially with a steel frame gun.
 
euxx said:
If you use 115gr bullet in a plastic gun, of course it will be snappy. With proper load 9mm can give a much softer recoil then .40 caliber, especially with a steel frame gun.
Click to expand...

Sorry, only own one plastic gun and its a .40, I tried to emphasize that we have no issue with 9mm just from our experience not a hinderence to new shooters. Sorry that you took offence but we are very aware of load and recoil on many calibers. My post was simply an opinion from past experience and not to taken as gospel, just an opinion so please dont adress me as some sort of uneducated shooter, that is offensive
Regards
Sig
DVC
 
curtdad said:
Sorry, only own one plastic gun and its a .40, I tried to emphasize that we have no issue with 9mm just from our experience not a hinderence to new shooters. Sorry that you took offence but we are very aware of load and recoil on many calibers. My post was simply an opinion from past experience and not to taken as gospel, just an opinion so please dont adress me as some sort of uneducated shooter, that is offensive
Click to expand...

No offense, but your post was a generalization over 9mm caliber. Many new shooters are using factory ammunition and most have no clue about difference between 115gr, 124gr and 147gr loads. From my experience, lot of people shooting .40 are saying the 9mm gives almost no recoil, so it is not even fun to shoot, but of course they are shooting major PF in .40 and your statement may make sense for a minor PF.
 
euxx said:
No offense, but your post was a generalization over 9mm caliber. Many new shooters are using factory ammunition and most have no clue about difference between 115gr, 124gr and 147gr loads. From my experience, lot of people shooting .40 are saying the 9mm gives almost no recoil, so it is not even fun to shoot, but of course they are shooting major PF in .40 and your statement may make sense for a minor PF.
Click to expand...

As this is the wrong place for this discussion, I will add one more note. If you read my original post you would have seen that I made no reference to recoil, I simply commented that a typical 9mm with box ammo(which I did not secify) tend to be SNAPPY and I am certain you can tell the difference between the two. As well if you where to assume that one can not make a .40 in major PF shoot flat then you need to build a few more guns as I politely disagree with your synopsis, that being said, this post was ta encourage a young shooter in our sport and offer advice and personal experiences that may be constructive.
Regards

Sig
DVC
 
Totally agree about this being the wrong place. But there is at least one thing you've got wrong. I always thought that snappiness is a characteristic of recoil, hence my comment about the proper load for a 9mm gun ...or actually for any gun.
 
euxx said:
Totally agree about this being the wrong place. But there is at least one thing you've got wrong. I always thought that snappiness is a characteristic of recoil, hence my comment about the proper load for a 9mm gun ...or actually for any gun.
Click to expand...

Then we agree to disagree, muzzle flip and recoil are two distinctly different issues, hence snappy and I will leave it at that
Regards

Sig
DVC
 
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