Zed Is Not Your Friend

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euxx

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An article on CZ reliability "Zed Is Not Your Friend" by Todd Louis Green of pistol-training.com after a course he did for Slavex at BC.

Personally I still see no alternative to CZ in IPSC Production division but I'd be interested to hear other opinions.
 
I dont think alot of Americans like CZ (see-zed)LOL! I was competing in Alaska two weeks ago and corrected on the zed thing many times.I did notice that the production guys shot M&P and 1911's.Mostly 1911 pistols. I cant recall seeing a cz.

I could be wrong as there was no single stack division so maybe they were put into production?Not sure.
 
Clean extractor claw with old toothbrush. Use wooden chopstick, lift extractor, spray gun cleaner between frame and extractor, let sit a bit, lift, blow gunk out with compressed air, apply a tiny drop of oil with tooth pick, you can now shoot 1K+ rounds till you have to do it again. Powder selection may affect your mileage.

Don't Production guns have to be DA/SA or DAO?

When I shoot USPSA, guys from all divisions end up in your squad, we all get scored differently thou :) But I can learn a few things from all of them - big benefit!!
 
I LOL'ed... while anything can fail it is surprizing that 4 out of 4 cz's failed this course.... I especially like the dig on Para-ord as it mirrors my experience with them vis a vis our local shooters.
 
My extractor spring had almost zero spring left in it when I pulled it out. To say it was weak would be an understatement. thankfully I got a bunch of spares from Milan in Czech. I just wish I had put one in before the course with Todd, then at least my gun wouldn't have been one of the 4.
One thing that he doesn't mention is that the other CZs were all using reloads, whereas the Glocks were shooting factory ammo, except for one. So the conclusion could also be reached that reloads suck balls.
 
I find that CZs and Shadow in particular are somewhat sensitive to not enough crimp.
If you crimp to remove all flare, you should be good; a tiny bit of taper crimp doesn't hurt either.
 
Don't Production guns have to be DA/SA or DAO?

You are correct.My mistake on the 1911 thing for production.That means all i saw were alot of M&P and a few XD's.Other than that,it seems it was all 1911 and 2011 pistols.
 
I was with the class 2 out of the 4 days - not sure who else was shooting Tanfoglio so when Todd mentioned that, I assume he was referring to me. I did one day with zero problems in about 400 rounds using my Tanfoglio, and 2 stove pipes in my Shadow in 800 rounds on day two. I've found that the Shadow is sensitive to dirty mags - and attribute my stove pipe problems there (the +10% springs have made a big difference for me).

I spoke to another class member that ran CZ 85 with zero failures. It seems there is a little writers embellishment in the article about the poor reliability of the CZs.

DeW
 
The other CZ was on the first two days and she had numerous issues. Whether it was gun or operator I am unsure. But I know there were issues.
Regardless the Glocks did better and the 5946s even more so.
 
I recently started using 75B is Production, haven't had any problems yet. I did have to change the OAL of my ammo for it to even chamber but once I did it it's been 100%.

Although I did see the shadow a jam on my last match and another guy had a few issues during a BB course with his Shadow as well...
 
Slavex said:
The other CZ was on the first two days and she had numerous issues. Whether it was gun or operator I am unsure. But I know there were issues.
Regardless the Glocks did better and the 5946s even more so.
Click to expand...

I think we could say the same locally,..except the Glocks have choked. Fluke that they had problems with CZ's on that course. Firing Duty or factory pF ammo would probably eleviate the problem, and give a fair comparison. The glocks were using factory ammo while the CZ's were using reloads gives me some insight into what the problem was attributed to... I don't even own a shadow anymore and I can not come to the conclusion that Zed is crap. I have never seen a CZ slide crack,.yet I have seen a glock slide go. :confused:
 
maurice said:
Fluke that they had problems with CZ's on that course:
Click to expand...

Really?

I had one...jam-o-matic. Ther are 5 or 6 guys at my home club using them...and I don't think I've ever seem them finish a match without some type of malfunction...

It seems to be the Shadows...less so with the base SP01's...

I won't tell you what I think of CZ's...everyone alreday knows :cool:

...pieces of crap...
 
I know Mike Kelly from NS had a jam -o-matic Shadow. He swore it off and now is happy with his GP6. Yet look at Cliff Meek....Nick King, and JP. I rarely see any issues which stopped them from finishing top in Canada. My Tanfoglio's have been reliable. Only problem I had was with the .40 large frame mags (needed to be pressed in),...and then my gun kote version of the stock 2 needed an extractor tuning. I actually loaned my stock2 gun kote to 2 different shooters the last 3.5 matches. One young shooter had constant (every stage) issues with his Glock 17,..yet using the same ammo in my gun had "0" problems for approx 360rds over 2.5 matches. The other shooter used his homeloads and just shot this past weekend and had "0" problems. It just goes to show you that those who come prepared and test their ammo should have no problems. I 100% agree that the Glock requires less maintenance than a Shadow or tanfoglio. Clean the extractor channel and extractor, and replace the extractor spring every 5000rds and there should not be any problems. I think the Glock is a great reliable gun,...but if you want something really tuff,...get an HK USP...LOL:nest:
 
I'd like to know how many of these "reliable Shadows" worked straight out of the box...


maurice said:
I know Mike Kelly from NS had a jam -o-matic Shadow. He swore it off and now is happy with his GP6. Yet look at Cliff Meek....Nick King, and JP. I rarely see any issues which stopped them from finishing top in Canada. My Tanfoglio's have been reliable. Only problem I had was with the .40 large frame mags (needed to be pressed in),...and then my gun kote version of the stock 2 needed an extractor tuning. I actually loaned my stock2 gun kote to 2 different shooters the last 3.5 matches. One young shooter had constant (every stage) issues with his Glock 17,..yet using the same ammo in my gun had "0" problems for approx 360rds over 2.5 matches. The other shooter used his homeloads and just shot this past weekend and had "0" problems. It just goes to show you that those who come prepared and test their ammo should have no problems. I 100% agree that the Glock requires less maintenance than a Shadow or tanfoglio. Clean the extractor channel and extractor, and replace the extractor spring every 5000rds and there should not be any problems. I think the Glock is a great reliable gun,...but if you want something really tuff,...get an HK USP...LOL:nest:
Click to expand...
 
Quigley said:
I'd like to know how many of these "reliable Shadows" worked straight out of the box...
Click to expand...

that is a fair question.
Mine (I had new shadow, factory recoil spring,..lower hammer spring)...worked 100% for 800-1000rds...then I sold it to fund my stock2
 
Part of the problem with the Shadow is the slide is heavier then the CZ85 due to the FLDC. IF you get to close to 125 PF with the wrong powder/bullet combo the slide won't receive enough energy to complete the reloading of the next round. I have both guns and using a 156 gr lead bullet with 231 at PF 125 the 85 will function perfetly while the Shadow will stove pipe rounds. Problem goes away with 125 gr bullets at the same PF.

To compare Gocks with factory rounds and CZ's using reloaded ammo is hardly a test of reliability though I would suspect the Glocks would digest most of what they get fed as long as they weren't lead bullets.

Take Care

Bob
 
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