I hope you didn't take it as a personal attack Phil, it was not meant to be. And yes we do have different views on the subject. Very different. I have heard every argument under the sun but there is still no reason for companies like Leupold to leave Canadians hanging just because they found a better price on a product. Leupold contracts Korth to do warranty work as well as distribute. Leupold should warranty all of their products the same period. Korth may buy the products as is, and supply their own warranty in order to make more money, but that is still backed up by and sanctioned by Leupold. In the case of non Korth bought Leupold products there should be arrangements for those folks as well.
Zeiss warranty ya next time Leupold hands down.
- Thread starter muckwa
- Start date
I think the issue of non warranty Leupold scopes that exist in Canada is so insignificant that to worry about having warranty or not does not drive the sale at retail one way or another. I would be surprised if the BassPro imported Leupold scopes amounted to less than .001% of the existing Leupold scopes in Canada and considering the low failure rate of Leupold, again I would be surprised if more than a handfull of scopes a year entered this area. I also would be surprised if BassPro sells more Leupold product in it's Alberta store than we do in ours and we hardly ever hear about any of our (P&D sold) being returned for warranty in a year. There is also the issue of non-ITAR compliance where shipments of rifle scopes (in this case) have been sent to Canada from the USA without the proper import and export permits being obtained. If Leupold was caught knowingly doing warranty on these scopes by the US Govt they would be seen as being a party after the fact and could be held civilly and criminaly responsible. There are on going investigations regarding Leupold products under these circumstances that could have significant repercussions for all those involved. Phil.
Come on Phil now you are sounding like,,,, you against Bass Pro. The non-ITAR compliance is scare tactic stuff. I bought a Burris 2-12 from Clay at Profit River, which he did not have in stock and had to order. It came in Legal and for near $500 less than your price. Quit trying to scare people. Now you are trying to make it out like, unless Korth brings Leupold it just can't be legal, which is just not the case. PEOPLE just so you know the big companies need to fill out the same paperwork as you and I. The only difference is that they do it in volume, at an extremely low cost per unit, which does not represent the ridiculous price you get charged.
I think any person who willing to take the time and research the product for them self and not just listen to what the sales guy says will take a Zeiss conquest anyday over a Leupold VX III and under. Ive searched through numerous forums from users (not salesmen) and 90% of the time Zeiss wins in quality and clarity. You can also find Zeiss Conquest in all powers for hundreds less then most retail shops when you buy from Prophet River. I saved well over $300 buying a Zeiss from him vs wholesale sports.
Im in no way making these statements to make my self any money or gain anything, Ive used Leupolds for years and after using Zeiss on a couple of my rifles this summer I sold off the Leupolds and Vortex and wont use anything else till I can afford Leica, Swaro, S&B ect...
youthshooter
Regular
Out of curiosity, how is Non-ITAR Compliance a scare tactic? Are you aware of the full legal ramifications with bringing in scopes from the US without proper import/export permits? How is Phil trying to scaring people by pointing this out?
Jack
mightyhunter
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
He isn't talking about bringing scopes over illegally. Korth will not do any warranty services for Leupold scopes that weren't brought into Canada by them. Even if they were imported legally. Anyone can apply for these import permits.
There are a few dealers (big& small) who don't follow the rules but most in fact do the proper paper work. I was not suggesting BassPro or any other specific dealer that may been mentioned is not doing the proper permitts...those are your interpretations. There has in fact been several exporters who have been caught exporting ITAR and other controlled goods in the past without the proper paperwork and have received substantial fines and in some cases have they are not allowed to directly export from the USA. Some very big companies have been caught in the past. There are also some grey market importers (those direct importing from the USA and not from authorized Canadian distributors) who get the proper permits but are not forth coming with customers where the product came from and the fact that the Canadian warranty centers won't cover them. My comments are not meant to scare people and I never suggested that only Korth is doing the proper permits. I hear two arguements here...one being that Leupold is over priced and the other that they are not as good as their competitors even if they were sold at US prices. If that is what anyone believes then they should buy something else as the consumer is always right. I comment on these threads as yes I have a horse in the race (several in fact). We sell substantial numbers of all optics and I see what people ask for and in response bring those in. At the current time Leupold is our biggest selling line so some consumers must believe they are a good product and a decent optic for the price. Consumers dictate what will sell and and if they agree with the price. The forums that I take the most honest info from are those consumers who vote with their wallet and the feedback I get after the fact. You could list any product on a public forum and get differing views. The are some optic lines that I make greater profit for unit than Leupold so you think I would push those products over Leupold but in fact we offer what people ask for. It would be hard for me to go to Korth Group and complain about pricing (I get the same as any other gold line dealer) when both my sales and those of Korth are up substantially from last year. I have some sales people who prefer Zeiss or Vortex or Minox and they may suggest those first to customers but in the end the customer makes the final descision. Phil.
ALBERTA BOY
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Does anyone know if Cabelas gets its Leupold product through Korth?
I ask because I know they don't get some of their Federal ammunition through the usual channels. For example, the 3030 ammunition that you get in Canada is item # 3030ac or 3030bc. The C stands for 'Canada' and it has french and English labeling. Cabelas has the US ammunition which is item # 3030a and 3030b. No french labeling.
This leads me to believe that maybe they also import their scopes directly from the states too?
I'm terrified to buy Leupold because I never know if it will have warranty or not.
I ask because I know they don't get some of their Federal ammunition through the usual channels. For example, the 3030 ammunition that you get in Canada is item # 3030ac or 3030bc. The C stands for 'Canada' and it has french and English labeling. Cabelas has the US ammunition which is item # 3030a and 3030b. No french labeling.
This leads me to believe that maybe they also import their scopes directly from the states too?
I'm terrified to buy Leupold because I never know if it will have warranty or not.
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
The whole "buy from us or your warranty is void" thing is infuriating and intolerable. As a photographer, this has been a maddening issue for decades, with major manufacturers playing these stupid games. As far as I can tell, it is a way for national distributors to artificially inflate prices. Those national distributors in some cases also cut off retailers who sold product at prices they deemed too low. I wonder if Korth and such engage in that practice as well?
If a company produces a product and sells it with a warranty, it should honor it, no matter where it was sold, as long as it was sold legally. Not doing so is just a mechanism for extracting more dollars from a consumer's wallet.
I wish I could recall specifics, but I believe that some camera manufacturers have been legally obliged to honour their warranties across borders.
I am in the process of looking for a mid range scope for my .223. Korth products are off my list as a result of this thread. As are Leupold, for their collusion in this crap.
If a company produces a product and sells it with a warranty, it should honor it, no matter where it was sold, as long as it was sold legally. Not doing so is just a mechanism for extracting more dollars from a consumer's wallet.
I wish I could recall specifics, but I believe that some camera manufacturers have been legally obliged to honour their warranties across borders.
I am in the process of looking for a mid range scope for my .223. Korth products are off my list as a result of this thread. As are Leupold, for their collusion in this crap.
It's funny when people talk about Korth getting in trouble when dealing and doing warranty work on scopes that were brought into canada "ilegally". They'll do the work on them as long as you pay, they just won't honor the "lifetime warranty".....
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
The discussion is about legally imported scopes that came in through channels other than Korth.
This isn't about illegal importing but about dubious business practices.
You have to put yourself in Korth's position. If you put all that money and man-power into a business like Korth would you warranty what you didn't sell? See how easy it was to come to the right answer.
It is very common practise for warranties to apply only to product coming from the recognised importer. I completely agree with this practise otherwise you will see importers/ service centres disappear.
It is very common practise for warranties to apply only to product coming from the recognised importer. I completely agree with this practise otherwise you will see importers/ service centres disappear.
mightyhunter
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
But they get pay by Leupold for the services. It wouldn't make any different to their bottom line.
Cabelas and every other major optics retailer in Canada (with the exception of BassPro) buy from Korth including Sail, Wholesale Sports and Lebaron. Most sonsors of CGN also buy from Korth so once again I think the concern that many Leupold products enter Canada through the back door are unfounded. Phil.
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
Bingo.
It is a Leupold warranty, and the local warranty centre gets paid by Leupold (or should).
The only rationale for not dealing with US product is less sales for Korth. It seems purely about enforcement of a monopoly, and artificially keeping prices at a certain level.
Yes it does, they lost a sale of a scope.
If we all did this with everything we buy there wouldn't be a single distributor in the country for any foreign made product. Then we would all be crying and complaining about it.
Buy any electronics direct from the U.S and if there is a Canadian distributor you are S.O.L when it comes to warranty.Why on earth would you think there should be some kind of special exemption for firearm related products?
what i'm getting at is Korth will do warranty work and honor warranty on scopes comming from them. but they will not honor the lifetime warranty on scopes comming in from any other source whether legally brought in from me, you or any other buisness like basspro that do there own export and import paperwork...... they'll take your money and repair a scope whether it's been taken across the boarder with or without the permits, i know this for a fact because i've sent one in and had it repaired and paid for the repairs and they know by the serial # where it was from (friend from US gave it to me after a hunting trip here in ontario as a thank you). it was brought up earler that Korth group will not touch a scope because of ITAR regs and they could get in big trouble beeing in possession of these scopes. they have no problem with it as long as they get payed for the work.
There is a big difference between working on any scope and being paid for such work by the person bringing in the scope; and
doing warranty work on a scope under an agreement with the USA manufacturer to do repairs for a fee from the USA Manufacturer.
One example above ties you to the USA manufacturer a lot more than the other. I certainly can see an arguement to be made re ITAR for example #2 if such scopes were in fact "unlawful". if it wwere my business - I would not risk it. No decision to be made.
doing warranty work on a scope under an agreement with the USA manufacturer to do repairs for a fee from the USA Manufacturer.
One example above ties you to the USA manufacturer a lot more than the other. I certainly can see an arguement to be made re ITAR for example #2 if such scopes were in fact "unlawful". if it wwere my business - I would not risk it. No decision to be made.
