ZF41 clone project

A little progress. My Accumount mount came with 45 degree set of rollers, which corresponds well to the drop-in mount they sell, but is NOT right for a real ZF41 base, which used rollers of about 70 degrees or so. There were lots of as-cast surfaces. The Accumount version (unlike hte Numrich version) also did not come with a set screw on the underside of the front ring. Finally, the Accumount copy had a piece of drill rod as the latch pin, while originals had a pan-head pin.

These inaccuracies would just not do. So I went over the entire mount with either and end mill or a file, follower by a light 120 grit sanding with a light 60 grit sand. Gives hte impression of a part that was tumbled after machining like the originals were. Then I machined a new set of 70 degree rollers from bar stock and installed them, locks up MUCH tigher now on my French repro base. After that I machined a new pan-head pin and installed it. Finally I added a 4-40NC set screw under the front ring.

Much better. After bluing, it will look like a post-war refurb of an original mount (nazi markings removed). I also serialized it in the original style.





This shows how a repro can be made to look original, though only crazy people like me would do so. Originals only sell for $75-100 more than the reproductions, so it's not worthwhile for most guys to fake these yet ;)
 
Making up for my camera battery dying last night...

Here you can see where I filed a bevel into the back of the mount, just behind the raceway where it fits onto the base. On the repros, this area is square with no bevel. I'm talking aboutthe surface that is bright white from the flash in this photo.



I wasn't going to fake up any more markings, but could not resist trying to duplicate the engraved K98k-Zf.41 pantograph found on the originals. Not even the best repros seem to have duplicated these markings as far as I can tell. I did the best I could to free-hand it with a 0.75 mm diamond burr in a handheld dremel tool. First I machinist's blued the area, then I hand sketched it using a scribe, then I deepened it with the burr. Not perfect, but very close - or as much as I can make it so freehand.



For comparison, here's a real one:



Here's a shot of all the surfaces now either milled or filed and sanded to hide that this was a casting vs, a machined forging.



In this pic, you can see the panhead pin I made and added to replace the incorrect drill rod pin.



I still have to dome the screw used to tighten the rollers onto the mount. Real ones are no cheese-head screws, but are slightly domed. That's a 2 minute job in the lathe.

When blued, this thing will definitely look the part.
 
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Wow! That's a lot of work you've done! Good job on it.

I think if I ever get around to building my ZF 41 clone I'll look for an original mount to save myself all the work. Plus I don't have a milling machine so I'd have to pay someone and that wouldn't be worth it.
 
An original would be WAY more cost effective, no doubt, but if I bought an original, I would not be able to show you guys this stuff! :) It IS a hobby, afterall ;)

In other news, I've somehow ended up with three stocks either here or en-route.

One, Mario's LAST cupped laminate, is in my basement. I'm not going to use it. It's a steyr stock, with the unique steyr bolt handle cutout, and while pretty would not look right on a byf44. It's got other mostly fixable minor issues, for example, it came with a walnut hg instead of blode red glue laminate, but may serve on some future project.

Next I picked a white glue laminuate that came of a byf43 (I think) with a WaA655 recoil lug. This one has nice original finish, but has some delamination issues in the butt that I will try to repair be gluing and clamping - we'll see what it looks like when it gets here.

And lastly a decent looking red glue laminate I kinda won on e-bay my accident. RC stock with a one-digit serial stamped on the left side (a "2") that looks to have come off a mid-war Mauser Borgiswald rifle.

When I get all three here, I'll pick one to use for the build. If I can get the delamination cracks dealt with, I'm leaning toward the white glue byf stock.
 
The white glue would be my first choice as well. I kind of like the white glue over the red glue myself. Maybe because they aren't as common from MO. I would suspect its off a byf 44. The 655 recoil lug is probably not original to the stock either way since 41 was the last year for 655 as I'm sure you know. Of course it could be a left over part used later in production.

It is interesting to see all the work you've done for sure.;)
 
Coyote Ugly said:
The lazy mans way would be to just print it off, cut out the stamp with scissors, and get a piece of scotch tape to affix it to the inside of the butt plate.
Click to expand...

But a more attentive counterfeiter would; print of a picture of the nazi eagle with appropriate wording and a border via photo shop, corel draw etc, then glue the print off onto the surface of a rubber or linoleum block, cut around the image and make a reproduction stamp. Don't forget to reverse the image.
 
hi CU:

At this stage, I have all the metal sorted out and ready for bluing. Everything is either re-serialized or unserialized with the exception of the trigger guard which as a m/m serial number on it. What is holding me back is waiting for the last two wood sets to arrive so I can choose which to use in the build, then I'll inlet the stock properly and then send off the metal for bluing.

If you guys would like, I can post pics of the bands I am using. I went with a late war milled rear band and a 1944 era thin-walled speed milled band. The front band was REALLY badly coroded when I got it, but cleaned up nice with some careful file work and then coarse sanding to duplicate a late war finish.
 
Here you go. Unfortunately, I accidentally double-struck the "2" on the rear band, but it's not too bad and frankly, a lot of original bands were double-struck. Both bands were originally numbered with other numbers, but were only lightly struck so I was able to scrub them without and evidence remaining. In the case of the front band, I filed the entire circumference of the band thinner (it started out as an over-average thick band) - a necessity because it was pretty corroded. I did get it cheap though - lol. The rear band had no WaA's on it and came off an RC. It is a bit more crudely made than most milled bands and I believe likely came off a 1944 rifle to begin with.

I think they both look good now.

 
Well, I got tired of waiting for the third stock to arrive. It's been in US Customs since June 6th - maybe they don't like something about it? Who knows.

I've converted the red glue laminate byf stock I had on-hand. If I ever want to use another stock, I could always sell this one. I've seen a good many guns with ZF41 inlet stocks that don't have the mount, I'm sure someone would want it - lol.

Here are the "almost done" pics. I have to put it back in the mill and take another 1.5mm cut because it got too tight after I installed a TG and tightened the action screws.

Definitely, you need a mill to make this cut and have it look original. A little "chocolate" fiebings oil-based leather dye makes the inlet look 70 years old... ;)



 
A couple more progress pics. First, let's talk floorplate. I REALLY agonized over this one. I had three stamped and welded floor plates available, one a serialized bye FP a local friend provided for potential use, the second an unknown maker serialized WW2 FP (could also be post-war east german, but not Yugo) and a WaA135 unserialized FP with a worn phosphate finish.

The first two are probably $30 items each or so. The latter is worth over $100 since it's not serialized and correct for most 44 or 45 rifles. Serializing it makes it worth less, but would dramatically improve the look of my rifle. In the end, despite it being a tragedy, I steel wooled off the remaining phosphate and serialized my sterile floorplate. It looks AWESOME. I even had the right size and pattern font available. This is exactly how "good" fakes are made. When you weld over S/Ns on the more common floorplates, it ALWAYS shows after being re-phosphated or blued because welding rod steel is different in composition than the 1018, 1020 or 12L14 style steels the Germans would originally have used for these stampings.

I'm using the tope one in this photos, it's bare and ready for blueing.



Here the scope is mocked up to check clearances. The ZF41 clone is pretty nice - the more I toy with it, the more I realize how good a job was done o nth repros, unlike the crappy scopes made for the turret repro market.



Here you can see it mocked up "quick & dirty" while I was testing function and scope mount clearance for the inleting.



Next step, blueing. I'm still casually looking for another trigger guard that is byf or WaA135 with locking screws and no serial number, but that can always be swapped out later.
 
LOL - imagine I am done this rifle and that I was a dishonest sort... I wonder what kinda theories ppl would advocate as to its origin? I think some ppl would gues at it being a fake/humped rifle, but I'd also bet a good many ppl would argue it's:

a) original
b) an east german/balkan/czeck rework
c) a restored original

Would be such a fun thread to be a spectator to... ;)
 
Claven2 said:
LOL - imagine I am done this rifle and that I was a dishonest sort... I wonder what kinda theories ppl would advocate as to its origin? I think some ppl would gues at it being a fake/humped rifle, but I'd also bet a good many ppl would argue it's:

a) original
b) an east german/balkan/czeck rework
c) a restored original

Would be such a fun thread to be a spectator to... ;)
Click to expand...

After you pass on and this goes through a few hands, you can almost bet that a, b or c will probably happen....

Still, a very cool project! Keep up the awesome work. Can't wait to see it done.

:)
 
It's certainly going to be unusual. When I started getting into Mausers years ago, I passer on a beautiful original, matching ZF41 for $1500. I thought it was too much at the time, but I was wrong. When I went back for it... gone.

These rifles are getting much more love now than they used to IMHO and matching originals are getting out of reach for many folks, if you can even find one.

High and low turret sniper repros are all over the place, same for SSR and LSR sniper clones.

The ones that seem to be not commonly reproduced are the ZF41 clones (unless you could those cheesy ones where you replace the rear sight ramp) and BNZ single claw mounts, mostly because they are hard to install correctly and the right scopes aren't produced as reproductions.

I'd like to see someone else try a ZF41 repro on here after I've done mine. It's a fun project, if you have the skills and tools to do it. I wouldn't want to pay a smith to put one together for me though - that could get expensive pretty quickly.
 
I still would like to try and do a ZF 41 build myself but currently I'm on a matching original k98k mission. Some day down the road I hope to start it. I may just try and add a few pieces here and there as I come across good deals or what ever. I don't have a lathe or milling machine but have the skills to do the rest of the work. Probably won't go into the detail you did with renumbering and such.

What I sort of have in my head is to find a later byf action and install a match grade barrel turned to k98k specs.
 
I toyed with that idea as well. Numrich has new Criterion K98 barrels, but then I lucked into this as-new East German barrel for free, so that made my mind up for me.

I wasn't going to hump the rifle, but then I thought it might be fun to demonstrate/expose how good or not good a fake can be made to look. It might make some buyers here a little more cautious in the future.
 
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