Zulu War Massacre Forensic Documentary

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI5kC6KvPhQ&feature=player_embedded#
 
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[youtube]eI5kC6KvPhQ[/youtube]

Embedded for ya :). If you're wondering how it was embedded to the forum quote my post and look at the coding.
 
Most countries like to talk about when they won. The British just seem to love talking about when they lost.

But then it didn't happen very often.
 
RRCo. said:
Most countries like to talk about when they won. The British just seem to love talking about when they lost.

But then it didn't happen very often.
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the defeat at isandlwana was the last time young kids where used as drummer boys and the last time the british colors where brought into battle

i do find it funny that because the front lines of soldiers where so far from the ammo (witch the box's where not even unscrewed yet) that the 75 round they had ran out quick enough for the lines to colapse

running out of ammo was a big problem because even with th martini henry they missed alot of there shots because they did not get alot of practice with there guns at rorke's drift they had some 20,000 rounds only about 900 left after all was said and done and only about 350 confirmed dead and about 500 wounded
 
Thanks really enjoyed watching it made my day with my love of the Martini and all Colonial British stuff nice to have some facts to go with it
 
antiqueguy said:
the defeat at isandlwana was the last time young kids where used as drummer boys and the last time the british colors where brought into battle
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A couple of things - firstly, a shooting pal of mine is a member of a British Victorian Army re-enactment group. A few years back they went to RSA to carry out a well-publicised 're-run' of the Battle of Rorke's Drift which necessarily insluded many of the actual descendants of the opposition. I'll try and find the article for you - it was featured on TV here in UK and back in the RSA.

Secondly, we have little tradition in our family concerning drummer boys, and although you might laff, it's something we take quite seriously. My maternal grandma was born in 1890 and lived in the East End of London. During Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in 1897, there were massive street celebrations everywhere, including my grandma's street. During a parade, an old man - a neighour from across the street, came up to her, and with the permission of her dad, gave her a whopping great hug, and laughingly told her that it was a 'hug from Waterloo'. My great-grandfather asked which Waterloo he meant, since there was a very large train station over the river by that name, and, of course, the famous battle back in 1815. The old man then explained.

It seems that he had been a 12-year-old drummer boy in an infantry regiment at the battle, and had been told by his sergeant that if he survived the day, that he should carry something of it with him forever, to pass on to somebody else as a memory of the great victory, IF victory there was. During the appalling meleé he was injured and lost consciousness. When he woke up, it was dark and the battle was over and he was in the arms of his sergeant, who had searched the battlefield until he found him, injured, near a wagon. The sergeant had kept him warm and saved him from dying long enough for him to get some kind of basic medical treatment for his many injuries - he had a couple of sabre cuts, one of which had taken his eye, lost three fingers and had a number of metal fragments in his legs, but he survived.

The caring sergeant was his father.

He promised that he would pass on the Waterloo hug to a deserving child, and did so, to my grandma, with the words - 'This hug has come all the way down the years from the battle of Waterloo, and you must pass it on to YOUR children at the right time. You'll know when that must be.'

Seems he died a few weeks later, but his legacy lived on with my grandma, who passed it on to me when I was seven years old, the same as she was when she got it.

Next month, I'll be doing the same thing to my grand-daughter, on her seventh birthday, and hopefully, one day, she will pass it on to her children.

So right now, I have, deep inside me, a hug that was given in love, hope and caring on a terrible day in May 1815, to pass on again.

Mawkish, I agree, and I apologise for the thread drift.

tac
 
The explanation of the battle was so obviously done by an academic. The bit about the Zulu army taking 13 minutes to reach the British lines and the M-H rifle being able to fire ten aimed rounds a minute. They assumed if the British had a 50% hit rate the Zulus should have been wiped out. Obviously they don't know much about combat. Just because the M-H sights were graduated to 1400 yards doesn't mean it was effective at that range. A hit rate of 10% would be generous with smoke and long range and cover. Plus the 13 minute thing is nuts. If you are under rifle fire and possess hand weapons you are going to close with the enemy as fast as possible. And those Zulus could really run.
 
Mike Webb said:
The explanation of the battle was so obviously done by an academic. The bit about the Zulu army taking 13 minutes to reach the British lines and the M-H rifle being able to fire ten aimed rounds a minute. They assumed if the British had a 50% hit rate the Zulus should have been wiped out. Obviously they don't know much about combat. Just because the M-H sights were graduated to 1400 yards doesn't mean it was effective at that range. A hit rate of 10% would be generous with smoke and long range and cover. Plus the 13 minute thing is nuts. If you are under rifle fire and possess hand weapons you are going to close with the enemy as fast as possible. And those Zulus could really run.
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yep its a volley sight when fliped up in fact i dont see how its any different then aiming with the 400 because you have to lift your head off the stock to use the ladder. the martini's of the zulu wars mk 1's and mk 2's are different then th more modern mk 3's and mk 4's

the hit rate was most likely way less then 50% rorke's drift 20,000 rounds and 900 left only about 350 dead :eek: i think they would have been better off with smooth bore

and really after 400 yard or so its unless anyway the round are only moving about 1350fps with a 480 bullet that drops like a brick
 
tacfoley said:
A couple of things - firstly, a shooting pal of mine is a member of a British Victorian Army re-enactment group. A few years back they went to RSA to carry out a well-publicised 're-run' of the Battle of Rorke's Drift which necessarily insluded many of the actual descendants of the opposition. I'll try and find the article for you - it was featured on TV here in UK and back in the RSA.

Secondly, we have little tradition in our family concerning drummer boys, and although you might laff, it's something we take quite seriously. My maternal grandma was born in 1890 and lived in the East End of London. During Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in 1897, there were massive street celebrations everywhere, including my grandma's street. During a parade, an old man - a neighour from across the street, came up to her, and with the permission of her dad, gave her a whopping great hug, and laughingly told her that it was a 'hug from Waterloo'. My great-grandfather asked which Waterloo he meant, since there was a very large train station over the river by that name, and, of course, the famous battle back in 1815. The old man then explained.

It seems that he had been a 12-year-old drummer boy in an infantry regiment at the battle, and had been told by his sergeant that if he survived the day, that he should carry something of it with him forever, to pass on to somebody else as a memory of the great victory, IF victory there was. During the appalling meleé he was injured and lost consciousness. When he woke up, it was dark and the battle was over and he was in the arms of his sergeant, who had searched the battlefield until he found him, injured, near a wagon. The sergeant had kept him warm and saved him from dying long enough for him to get some kind of basic medical treatment for his many injuries - he had a couple of sabre cuts, one of which had taken his eye, lost three fingers and had a number of metal fragments in his legs, but he survived.

The caring sergeant was his father.

He promised that he would pass on the Waterloo hug to a deserving child, and did so, to my grandma, with the words - 'This hug has come all the way down the years from the battle of Waterloo, and you must pass it on to YOUR children at the right time. You'll know when that must be.'

Seems he died a few weeks later, but his legacy lived on with my grandma, who passed it on to me when I was seven years old, the same as she was when she got it.

Next month, I'll be doing the same thing to my grand-daughter, on her seventh birthday, and hopefully, one day, she will pass it on to her children.

So right now, I have, deep inside me, a hug that was given in love, hope and caring on a terrible day in May 1815, to pass on again.

Mawkish, I agree, and I apologise for the thread drift.

tac
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do remember rorke's drift happened only a few hours after isandlwana in fact they watched as it happen there is right now is something on youtube of a soldiers account of the battle i'll try to find it
 
tacfoley said:
A couple of things - firstly, a shooting pal of mine is a member of a British Victorian Army re-enactment group. A few years back they went to RSA to carry out a well-publicised 're-run' of the Battle of Rorke's Drift which necessarily insluded many of the actual descendants of the opposition. I'll try and find the article for you - it was featured on TV here in UK and back in the RSA.

Secondly, we have little tradition in our family concerning drummer boys, and although you might laff, it's something we take quite seriously. My maternal grandma was born in 1890 and lived in the East End of London. During Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in 1897, there were massive street celebrations everywhere, including my grandma's street. During a parade, an old man - a neighour from across the street, came up to her, and with the permission of her dad, gave her a whopping great hug, and laughingly told her that it was a 'hug from Waterloo'. My great-grandfather asked which Waterloo he meant, since there was a very large train station over the river by that name, and, of course, the famous battle back in 1815. The old man then explained.

It seems that he had been a 12-year-old drummer boy in an infantry regiment at the battle, and had been told by his sergeant that if he survived the day, that he should carry something of it with him forever, to pass on to somebody else as a memory of the great victory, IF victory there was. During the appalling meleé he was injured and lost consciousness. When he woke up, it was dark and the battle was over and he was in the arms of his sergeant, who had searched the battlefield until he found him, injured, near a wagon. The sergeant had kept him warm and saved him from dying long enough for him to get some kind of basic medical treatment for his many injuries - he had a couple of sabre cuts, one of which had taken his eye, lost three fingers and had a number of metal fragments in his legs, but he survived.

The caring sergeant was his father.

He promised that he would pass on the Waterloo hug to a deserving child, and did so, to my grandma, with the words - 'This hug has come all the way down the years from the battle of Waterloo, and you must pass it on to YOUR children at the right time. You'll know when that must be.'

Seems he died a few weeks later, but his legacy lived on with my grandma, who passed it on to me when I was seven years old, the same as she was when she got it.

Next month, I'll be doing the same thing to my grand-daughter, on her seventh birthday, and hopefully, one day, she will pass it on to her children.

So right now, I have, deep inside me, a hug that was given in love, hope and caring on a terrible day in May 1815, to pass on again.

Mawkish, I agree, and I apologise for the thread drift.

tac
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Not mawkish at all. Great post, thank you. :)
 
TGC said:
So I have to ask, how did they win at Rouks Drift if the rifles where that bad?
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there was a big difference but it was 4000 vs around 150(counting native forces and calvalry) but they had a defensive wall and better tactics

the zulus did have firearms mostly muskets but some martini's at rorkes drift they where getting shot at

also isandlwana was not the only british loss in the zulu wars there was another one that was covered up by the british military and gov

also at rorkes drift they did not open up till about 500 yards

not it was not the guns falt it was training and the fact that the cartridge was made from brass foil with a iron head like it said in the vid they damage easily this was replaced by drawn brass(although india did not get the the message they where still making foil cartridges and even loaded them with cordite and smokeless :eek:) these guns where used right up to ww1 by countrys like india and even here in canada for the home gaurd type units and in the UK for the same and even used with incendiary ammo in the planes for use on zeplins i ww1

i have the last mark made the mark IV it works well
 
Mike Webb said:
The explanation of the battle was so obviously done by an academic. The bit about the Zulu army taking 13 minutes to reach the British lines and the M-H rifle being able to fire ten aimed rounds a minute. They assumed if the British had a 50% hit rate the Zulus should have been wiped out. Obviously they don't know much about combat. Just because the M-H sights were graduated to 1400 yards doesn't mean it was effective at that range. A hit rate of 10% would be generous with smoke and long range and cover. Plus the 13 minute thing is nuts. If you are under rifle fire and possess hand weapons you are going to close with the enemy as fast as possible. And those Zulus could really run.
Click to expand...

But Mike, there were 10,000 targets directly in front and 5,000 on either side. Hard to miss eclipse or not, smoke or not.

The facts as I see them are the Brits were spaced too far apart, their guns fouled and or ejection issues after they got hot and they had 20,000 stoned blood lusted Zulu's bearing down on them at a full run or close to it.
For the record I don't buy into this "warrior code" bullsh1t for one moment (gutting to release the spirit of the enemy) I seem to remember hearing the accounts of genitals being removed and faces stabbed to the point of no recognition....just another way of kindly releasing the poor fellows spirit eh!? I call:bsFlag:.
 
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