How battle scarred is your milsurp?
- Thread starter metalslug
- Start date
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have seen a Garand with some interesting marks. On one side of the stock (I am thinking it was on the right side), there were numerous black marks about 1mm to 1.5mm in diameter. They were dark brown to black. Where you would imagine a soldier's hands would be if they were doubling around with the rifle at the port, there were two spots where there were no such black dot marks. Otherwise the rifle shot fine, & the stock wood was otherwise sound, but there were numerous dings in the wood.
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Shrapnel is actually a round ball, a number of which were loaded in an explosive projectile with the aim of killing or wounding exposed personnel. Shrapnel was replaced by the high explosive shell in WW1 and thereafter which was determined to be a more effective killer when the shell casing split into many ragged fragments of varying size on detonation.So how do we know if those gouges on a wooden stock were caused by HE shell fragmentation or by the weapon being dropped or bruised in handling or storage? Sorry to be a killjoy, but I'd venture that most HE fragments travel at sufficient velocity to bust a wooden stock to splinters if they hit it.
Some stock damage actually shows a distinctive signature. I've seen a number of Garand stocks which showed the round impression of the windage or elevation knobs from other rifles as a result of being stacked together in a box or on a pallet. You will also see many used Garand stocks which exhibit bullet tip indentations from an en bloc clip being pressed or tapped against the wood with the idea of seating the rounds before loading the clip in the rifle. This is especially evident on the right side of the butt as most folks are right handed. Now did that happen in combat or at the range because some drill Sgt told the troops that it was the thing to do?
Wooden handguards sustained a lot of damage and often required replacement/repair simply because they were flimsier than the stock itself. Some were also broken in bayonet drills. In the case of semi-autos, which were fired for a prolonged period w/o cooling, the handguards would sometimes char because of the heat and imbedded oils.
Some stock damage actually shows a distinctive signature. I've seen a number of Garand stocks which showed the round impression of the windage or elevation knobs from other rifles as a result of being stacked together in a box or on a pallet. You will also see many used Garand stocks which exhibit bullet tip indentations from an en bloc clip being pressed or tapped against the wood with the idea of seating the rounds before loading the clip in the rifle. This is especially evident on the right side of the butt as most folks are right handed. Now did that happen in combat or at the range because some drill Sgt told the troops that it was the thing to do?
Wooden handguards sustained a lot of damage and often required replacement/repair simply because they were flimsier than the stock itself. Some were also broken in bayonet drills. In the case of semi-autos, which were fired for a prolonged period w/o cooling, the handguards would sometimes char because of the heat and imbedded oils.
The two worst one's I own have both seen Chinese service. One's a WW2 Chinese manufactured one and the other an old Brno marked VZ-24 with Chinese characters carved in the stock and a Chiang Kai Shek bolt in it. These two are beat to death with bores badly rusted. In fact the VZ 24 is so bad you can literally drop a 8mm bullet down the bore.
Cool old Mausers that have seen a lot of use over the years. I'd imagine some was combat use but hard to say.
Cool old Mausers that have seen a lot of use over the years. I'd imagine some was combat use but hard to say.
Smellie, I'd love to hear more about these mausers!!!
The 3 in my collection that look to have "been there done that" are:
1909 Finnish captured SA marked mosin 91. It's got dents, dings and has been used that's for sure.
1940 Turkish Mauser, again dents, dings, zero bluing and the best part is it has a buldge in the barrel from a bore ubstruction that was shot out!
Last but not least is my 1861 Snider 3 band. I bought the rifle in 2 pieces, the stock was broken in 1/2!! The best part is the buttplate, looks like someone used it regularly as a hammer!!
1909 Finnish captured SA marked mosin 91. It's got dents, dings and has been used that's for sure.
1940 Turkish Mauser, again dents, dings, zero bluing and the best part is it has a buldge in the barrel from a bore ubstruction that was shot out!
Last but not least is my 1861 Snider 3 band. I bought the rifle in 2 pieces, the stock was broken in 1/2!! The best part is the buttplate, looks like someone used it regularly as a hammer!!
live4therut
CGN frequent flyer
My collection has mostly VG-excellent condition but I do have an M1D that looks like it was used for a crutch or dragged by the wear on the but plate
Saw a Japanese Nambu lmg which had a longitudinal groove in the cooling fins from a bullet, and fragment pockmarks on the side of the receiver.
There was a chap who had a Chinese PPSh and its accompanying magazine chest pouch. The damaged magazines were still in the pouch; pouch was bloodstained with bullet holes through it from his Sten.
There was a chap who had a Chinese PPSh and its accompanying magazine chest pouch. The damaged magazines were still in the pouch; pouch was bloodstained with bullet holes through it from his Sten.
Dents, scrapes, gouges are pretty hard to call combat scars.
Ever taken a wood stocked rifle into the bush and USED it. I mean, not just carried like a baby but USED it as a soldier uses his weapon.
My bet is the really beat up ones were either a: training rifles used on Ex which typically live the hardest lives and/or b) since they left the service, folks have been taking them out hunting and shooting and all manner of things where they get banged up and abused.
But don't let reality get in the way of your imaginations.
Ever taken a wood stocked rifle into the bush and USED it. I mean, not just carried like a baby but USED it as a soldier uses his weapon.
My bet is the really beat up ones were either a: training rifles used on Ex which typically live the hardest lives and/or b) since they left the service, folks have been taking them out hunting and shooting and all manner of things where they get banged up and abused.
But don't let reality get in the way of your imaginations.
- Location
- Beaverlodge, Alberta
Sure it makes perfect sense that nearly every surplus rifle in existence was refurbed after major conflict at least to some extent before being put back into war stores and later sold out of service. What soldier would want to head into battle with some clapped out old junk? But, there are cases where rifles have been battlefield pick ups, bet bring backs etc. I believe that to say they don't exist is every bit as unrealistic as those of us who think every bump and scrape proves battle provenience. Major Armies were involved in battles where people and gear did fight and die, a LOT. To say that they don't exist is like denying the holocaust. These things did happen and there are rifles out there that show this. I made a comment on Mamabear's original thread about her Carcano being used as a fire poker at deer camp. Sure could have happened but I bet bubba Fud's hands got skin grafting after by the looks of the paw prints left on that thing. Plus the steel pieces that are burned into it, what's the story there?
History is real people. It IS alive out there. Proving it is the tough part.
History is real people. It IS alive out there. Proving it is the tough part.
