hbean
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, BC
All it takes is a wrong bolt landed in the wrong bin at the factory.
XCR-M Owners: Bit of a warning
- Thread starter Xero
- Start date
- Location
- Center of the Universe
"Sounds better" doesn't always equate to "works better"
- Location
- Sudbury, On
Sure you can stick a grade eight bolt in there... But what do you do after it rips/shears out a huge chunk of aluminum?
- Location
- Sudbury, On
Heck, Air Force One has problems themselves dealing with subpar counterfeit parts...
Pat911
CGN Regular
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
I had something similar happen, barrel would come lose and fall of when i lower the gun. After trying everything i could think of, sent it back to wolverine and they took care of it. For free.
Not too sure about the rifle, but the guys at wolverine are really trustworthy.
Not too sure about the rifle, but the guys at wolverine are really trustworthy.
15567
CGN frequent flyer
Many years ago I remember watching a 60 minutes segment about Chinese airplane parts being sold as original quality ones. The resellers were making a very tidy profit. This was discovered after the investigation of what caused an airliner to crash killing all aboard, a bolt was the cause here.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
It looks like Wolverine is setting you up with a new bolt, those guys are phenomenal.
My tip for you is not to worry about the torque wrench or specs. I used to be a mechanic, now I'm a professional armourer. I never use torque wrenches, namely because I've never found an accurate one and also have never found any metals to be perfectly consistent. With a little patience and understanding, you don't need them.
Triple-torque your way to greatness. I'm sure there's a good video out there that explains exactly why this works, but here's the deal:
Anything with threads will not properly match up when initially turned in. For example, only every second or third thread is actually mated properly. So when you just put the bolt in and start tightening and torqueing, only half the threads are then taking all that force. Go hand tight (snug), back off slightly, tighten more, back off, and tighten again. You'll notice when you do it that the bolt tightens further each time. This greatly increases the mating of the threads, therefore reducing the chance of breakage and also of it coming loose.
I don't have an XCR but my problem with loctite and guns is that guns have a tendency to get warm, and loctite releases with heat. Even on scope rails and rings I don't use Loctite and they never come loose on their own. It's hard to tell from the picture but it would surprise the heck out of me if they actually installed a heli-coil from factory, hopefully that's a proper threaded insert. Heli-coils are normally installed when you mess up the original threads and aren't as good as factory threading or inserts.
My tip for you is not to worry about the torque wrench or specs. I used to be a mechanic, now I'm a professional armourer. I never use torque wrenches, namely because I've never found an accurate one and also have never found any metals to be perfectly consistent. With a little patience and understanding, you don't need them.
Triple-torque your way to greatness. I'm sure there's a good video out there that explains exactly why this works, but here's the deal:
Anything with threads will not properly match up when initially turned in. For example, only every second or third thread is actually mated properly. So when you just put the bolt in and start tightening and torqueing, only half the threads are then taking all that force. Go hand tight (snug), back off slightly, tighten more, back off, and tighten again. You'll notice when you do it that the bolt tightens further each time. This greatly increases the mating of the threads, therefore reducing the chance of breakage and also of it coming loose.
I don't have an XCR but my problem with loctite and guns is that guns have a tendency to get warm, and loctite releases with heat. Even on scope rails and rings I don't use Loctite and they never come loose on their own. It's hard to tell from the picture but it would surprise the heck out of me if they actually installed a heli-coil from factory, hopefully that's a proper threaded insert. Heli-coils are normally installed when you mess up the original threads and aren't as good as factory threading or inserts.
Xero
Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I'm actually fairly surprised that the rifle kept feeding fairly well even after that barrel bolt had worked itself loose enough for me to just unscrew it by hand. Granted there were some stovepipes as, I'm assuming, the extractor wasn't grabbing the casing properly and failing to fling it free, but all that was required on my end was to manually rack the charging handle most of the time.
I had one failure to feed with the round only going half way into the chamber and jamming itself there, but that was easily solved by yanking the mag out and cycling the charging handle as well. Pretty easy manual of arms on this rifle at least!
This does make sense! I'll be sure to try this method when installing the next barrel bolt/screw.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
I am sitting in Joberg waiting for the next flight to Mozambique so can not help you directly but I see that Guy and Grumpy have already replied. Aside from our flooding we will look after you. We will require the serial number so we can report back to Rob Arms and they can look into their bolts. A few points for the record:
Wolverine Supplies is the exclusive importer for Rob Arms so we handle all warranty claims an provide full support.
Grumpy is correct we torque all XCR barrel bolts to 250 inch lbs. do not use lock tite. I use oil, I learnt when working on engine cylinder head bolts to use oil, allows for a more accurate seating. After a lot of use throw the bolt away and use a new one in order to maintain an accurate torque, but I mean after years of use, this is because over multiple use the threads can stretch.
I don,t regard this bolt as a problem as we have only heard of a handful of complaints out of thousands of rifles sold.
The helicoil is required as you are tightening a steel bolt into an aluminum reciever.
Wolverine Supplies is the exclusive importer for Rob Arms so we handle all warranty claims an provide full support.
Grumpy is correct we torque all XCR barrel bolts to 250 inch lbs. do not use lock tite. I use oil, I learnt when working on engine cylinder head bolts to use oil, allows for a more accurate seating. After a lot of use throw the bolt away and use a new one in order to maintain an accurate torque, but I mean after years of use, this is because over multiple use the threads can stretch.
I don,t regard this bolt as a problem as we have only heard of a handful of complaints out of thousands of rifles sold.
The helicoil is required as you are tightening a steel bolt into an aluminum reciever.
geologist
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
OP I hope it all works out for you. Wolverine are good people.
I learn so much on this site, thanks to the posters with the technical know how.
I learn so much on this site, thanks to the posters with the technical know how.
My friend broke the exact same bolt on his XCR on Tuesday of this week. He is also being shipped a new bolt from Wolverine.
Grumpy Wolverine
Regular
- Location
- Look over your shoulder
Once we are able to get back into the shop we can definitely help out all the folks with this issue. However please be cognizant of that fact that we are shut down due to flooding and road closures. Although I do sympathize with any inconvenience this may cause, it is way beyond our control at this time.
- Location
- North of Hell
Let us know when the Royal Canadians come, open your door with your keys, then break the door and as many windows as possible, and take all your firearms.
Grumpy Wolverine
Regular
- Location
- Look over your shoulder
Hey unless they are now bringing Chinooks in, there is nothing to worry about.
aaron042671
Member
- Location
- winnipeg
It states a MAXIMUM! Not that it NEEDSTo be! Hope u can reverse it out, ur torque wrench is likely out on its read, u were prob. Closer to 250
Grumpy Wolverine
Regular
- Location
- Look over your shoulder
Testing has shown that the best accuracy results in a barrel bolt torque of 250 inch pounds.
- Location
- Southern Ontario
Quite right. I was just about to mention this, considering the remarks where some thought the heli-coil had to be from a repair job. Not so, as Mr. Wolverine correctly states. Where an aluminum part meets a steel (ferrous) part (like a screw), it's the breeding ground for galvanic corrosion. The heli-coils are made of stainless and provide a non-corroding thread bearing surface between the two so that they don't seize up. Another twist is if you have stainless on stainless, where you can get a "galling" effect on the surfaces because of the spikey molecular nature of stainless steel (but not in this case). They now have "Nitronic' stainless heli-coils to help out in such cases. Those with stainless firearms may want to keep this in mind if you ever need to do a heli-coil installation FWIW.
But yeah, get someone with the tools and experience to do the broken thread removal for you, whatever method of removal you decide on.
Cheers.
This...
Hey are ####. And its a known issue. They do not break at the indicated torque.
Canuck1978
Regular
- Location
- Vancouver
Good to know, I just got my pistol mags from Wolverine and will be taking my XCR-M out to play. I have a calibrated snap-on 3/8 drive torque wrench if I have any issues. I've fired 1000+ rounds out of an XCR-L and I've never heard of this, maybe it's an M issue only? I've never torqued anything on a firearm before, but at work I torque flanges all the time and I know that recommended torque values are different for 'wet' and 'dry' torque jobs ie: wet means lubricant or never seize on the threads and dry means nothing applied to the threads. Oh ya: I hope you get your shop squared away quickly from the flooding. I've had my house flood before from frozen waterlines when I was working out of town- it sucks!!
