Hunter killed by bear, WRITE a letter to change Wilderness ATC 'rules'..

fenceline said:
Serious question. Do you have your R-PAL?

It used to be legal and there were no issues. It has only become taboo because of anti-gun legislation drafted by those with no understanding of firearms or their use. We have "overly Liberal" gun laws now.

You summarized your mindset quite well enough on your own. It is all so very clear now.
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LOL!!! Geez, you finally can read between the lines. Leave hunting for hunters and the handguns for the Mall Ninja's, as a few on this thread. I'm a hunter and all what is needed is a traditional firearm. If you wish to practice individualism, then then go ahead, write your MP................you won't find me wishing you good-luck. Final note, learn to know bears/cougars, respect them, know their whereabouts, read signs, etc..................instead of making a knee-jerk decision, that packing a handgun is the only answer.
 
track said:
LOL!!! Geez, you finally can read between the lines. Leave hunting for hunters and the handguns for the Mall Ninja's, as a few on this thread. I'm a hunter and all what is needed is a traditional firearm. If you wish to practice individualism, then then go ahead, write your MP................you won't find me wishing you good-luck. Final note, learn to know bears/cougars, respect them, know their whereabouts, read signs, etc..................instead of making a knee-jerk decision, that packing a handgun is the only answer.
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Mall ninjas. Fudds. They are so similar in their "thinking".

I'm neither.
 
track said:
LOL!!! Geez, you finally can read between the lines. Leave hunting for hunters and the handguns for the Mall Ninja's, as a few on this thread. I'm a hunter and all what is needed is a traditional firearm. If you wish to practice individualism, then then go ahead, write your MP................you won't find me wishing you good-luck. Final note, learn to know bears/cougars, respect them, know their whereabouts, read signs, etc..................instead of making a knee-jerk decision, that packing a handgun is the only answer.
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Who will be left to help you when they come to take your "traditional firearm"? What is a "traditional firearm"?
 
track said:
LOL!!! Geez, you finally can read between the lines. Leave hunting for hunters and the handguns for the Mall Ninja's, as a few on this thread. I'm a hunter and all what is needed is a traditional firearm. If you wish to practice individualism, then then go ahead, write your MP................you won't find me wishing you good-luck. Final note, learn to know bears/cougars, respect them, know their whereabouts, read signs, etc..................instead of making a knee-jerk decision, that packing a handgun is the only answer.
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Literally hundreds and thousands of black bears wandering around the northern Ontario woods.
Please explain to me how you know where they are from minute to minute?
Unfortunately bears don't file travel itineraries and in my neck of the woods a bear can turn up just about anywhere at any time and a 300 pound boar can literally pop out of a clump of alders right in front of you.
I never go into the northern Ontario woods unarmed, EVER.
 
Gunoholic said:
Literally hundreds and thousands of black bears wandering around the northern Ontario woods.
Please explain to me how you know where they are from minute to minute?
Unfortunately bears don't file travel itineraries and in my neck of the woods a bear can turn up just about anywhere at any time and a 300 pound boar can literally pop out of a clump of alders right in front of you.
I never go into the northern Ontario woods unarmed, EVER.
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don't you have bear GPS .... geeeez man get with the times!
 
Boomer said:
Most folks who have spent much time around blackies tend to discount the level of danger they present, but there is another point of view. While a grizzly might attack someone who gets too close to it's cubs, it's food cash, or who suddenly startles it at close range (the grizzly is known to have a very large personal space, and once that space is invaded it may well react in a negative manner) black bears have a very small personal space, and often tolerate close range human encroachment. Black bear attacks are rare, but when they occur they are most frequently predatory in nature; thus the advice is to play dead if being mauled by a grizzly, but to fight back if being mauled by a black bear. Naturally this advise is a generality, and should be treated as such. Any bear on any given day can be a dangerous bear, and its wise to never forget what they are and how they make a living. It is prudent to learn something about bear behavior prior to going into bear habitat, and the best sources I know of are the trilogy of bear attack books by James Garry Shelton and the book "Bear Attacks, Their Causes and Avoidance" by Stephen Herrero. Beware of bear attack books which are simply cashing in on the drama of the subject, these tend to be thin on information, and thick on entertainment.
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Thanks, I'll look into those.
 
This is obviously a tragedy. But it is far from a common occurrence, I was raised in that area and animal awareness among residents is generally pretty high in towns like Canmore. There are of course issues with tourists. Not to say the individual who was mauled was not an experienced woodsman, as he likely was if he solo sheep hunting picklejar.

I know I am a noob here but, I largely agree with "track", I will voice my opinion a little differently:
I work in the bush and have had encounters with bears and cougars. I always carry bear spray. I have doubted its effectiveness in some situations with lots of heavy cover and pounding rain, but I feel these situations would also limit the effectiveness of a firearm.

In situations where a firearm was to be used for defence against a wild animal (and these would be crazy situations, I have worked with biologists who did bear den surveys in interior BC without firearms) I would far prefer a shotgun loaded with slugs or a high caliber carbine with optics tailored for quick acquisition to a handgun. If a bear is mauling you, it is incredibly unlikely you will have the ability to draw your high caliber handgun and shoot it one handed into anything but your own femoral artery.

Hunting offers a more dangerous scenario because you are often moving silently in optimal habitat for bears, and may be stalking the bear's prey in some seasons or the bear itself. Gutpiles, gunshots etc. attract some learned bears. Once again I don't feel like a handgun is optimal for bear defence, or that having a handgun or even a 12 gauge defender will stop a bear in the circumstances where they attack humans. Sows with cubs will always be extremely dangerous, handgun or not, and if your life lies in the split second it takes to fire bear spray or a firearm there is always a chance they will fail you.
 
track said:
Merci beaucoup!
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Your welcome. Remember that the person who got killed is also a hunter so even the law would allow to legal carry handgun, I doubt he would carry. That's just simply hunter's mind set. I spend a year to convince a hunter to see advantage of handgun, wasting hundred of ammo for him to shoot and try out but still won't work. His bolt action is like best of all, what he said.

Don't get me wrong, I would holster up if I could.
 
conor_90 said:
it is incredibly unlikely you will have the ability to draw your high caliber handgun and shoot it one handed into anything but your own femoral artery.
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An Alberta bowhunter proved quite opposite a few years ago.

As for shotgun and slugs, no doubt a great choice but hardly practical when carrying a rifle. The key is, due to terrain, loads, etc....rifles are most often slung or attached to packs while sheep hunting and are not easily accessed in a surprise defense situation. A handgun is always with you. It's for this reason that I always carry bear spray now. No matter what happens it will remain on my body.

Would I carry a handgun if permitted....in most situations not likely but in some most definitely but regardless, I don't think my personal opinion should rule those who would like to undergo the certification and always carry. You cite a lot of scenarios how things could go wrong with a handgun....we have proof positive here in Alberta this week what can go wrong without one and proof positive in the case of the bowhunter what can go right. More convincing in my opinion.
 
I would also like to bring to mind the adage "when you have a hammer all you see is nails"

This goes for handgun guys preferring handguns and hunters preferring shotguns and for someone carrying a firearm instead of spray possibly antagonizing and killing a bear that could have been avoided by calmly assessing the situation.

If you are casually accessing the outdoors with your family near an urban area in Canada (this would include the site of the incident) making a lot of noise will go a lot further to avoiding bear encounters than carrying a handgun ever will.

Sheephunter you make some good points, I personally believe sportsmen and people who work in remote areas should be allowed to carry handguns for predator defence, with proper training for it added to CORE and similar courses naturally. I don't personally believe carrying a handgun is anymore effective than bearspray, and it doesn't end with a dead bear. I am hardly a sentimentalist about bear hunting to clarify but I think these encounters should end optimally with a bear that is scared of humans and a human with a new respect for bears.

It is my understanding that some people where I have worked in NBC carry calibers that are "overkill" for the deer they hunt for bear defence.

I do not know the case of this bowhunter, it must have been before my time if he was allowed to carry a handgun while hunting in Alberta. I too carry bearspray when grousing, fishing and snowshoe hunting.
 
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@ conor_90

I disagree. I will give you an example, I have tracked wounded bears in some areas of Ontario where my 12 gauge defender was almost useless because of the thickness of the bush. Did I wish I had pistol... Yes. Do I think all bear hunters need a pistol? No.

Realistically ... who am I to tell you what you should carry? If you spend years in the bush carrying a bear-spray and you feel comfortable. Well then that is what you should carry.

I believe that decision should made by the hunter. You would think a hunter based on their comfort level, skill level, training, hunting area, etc, etc, etc should be able to decided what tools he/she needs.

In this case I don't know whether it would have helped, but I would think that being able to carry a 44 magnum revolver for example would have not hurt his survival chances. It is a tragedy!
 
There's a lot that can be done to avoid bear encounters but as in this case, this occasionally go wrong....the key is to be follow the proper steps for the former and be prepared for the latter. Having car keys in your pocket doesn't entice you to drive drunk any more than packing a handgun would encourage you to antagonize a bear.
 
There are two different issues being debated here.

1) The tactic of whether or not a handgun is a wise or pertinent choice as a defence for hunters.

2) The debate as whether or not a hunter should legally be allowed to make the choice for himself.

If you disagree with the tactical, cool. That's an individual choice.

If you think it should be up to someone else to decide that for you, well now that is everyone's problem. As it takes away that choice from everyone, whether they like it or not.
 
Yeah, I noted that in my post. I always carry spray as I said, and as has been suggested I'm more interested in the sporting arms side of things I would be unlikely to carry or spend money on a pistol when I could spend it all on rifle ammo ;).

Greenbob you are right, every situation is different, and I believe there are issues with the ATC system. Whether or not a handgun is the best tool is obviously a matter of debate.
I feel like a handgun in the hands of a member of CGN's would be more effective than one in the hands of a hungover logger however...
 
GreenBob said:
@ conor_90

I disagree. I will give you an example, I have tracked wounded bears in some areas of Ontario where my 12 gauge defender was almost useless because of the thickness of the bush. Did I wish I had pistol... Yes. Do I think all bear hunters need a pistol? No.

Realistically ... who am I to tell you what you should carry? If you spend years in the bush carrying a bear-spray and you feel comfortable. Well then that is what you should carry.

I believe that decision should made by the hunter. You would think a hunter based on their comfort level, skill level, training, hunting area, etc, etc, etc should be able to decided what tools he/she needs.

In this case I don't know whether it would have helped, but I would think that being able to carry a 44 magnum revolver for example would have not hurt his survival chances. It is a tragedy!
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Agree absolutely.
 
GreenBob said:
@ conor_90

I disagree. I will give you an example, I have tracked wounded bears in some areas of Ontario where my 12 gauge defender was almost useless because of the thickness of the bush. Did I wish I had pistol... Yes. Do I think all bear hunters need a pistol? No.

Realistically ... who am I to tell you what you should carry? If you spend years in the bush carrying a bear-spray and you feel comfortable. Well then that is what you should carry.

I believe that decision should made by the hunter. You would think a hunter based on their comfort level, skill level, training, hunting area, etc, etc, etc should be able to decided what tools he/she needs.

In this case I don't know whether it would have helped, but I would think that being able to carry a 44 magnum revolver for example would have not hurt his survival chances. It is a tragedy!
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This!
 
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