Long Range Weapon Recommendations

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Alpheus said:
Not surprised at all. Although I think it is more along the lines that stiffer barrels are more accurate.
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Not too sure why one length is more accurate than the other.
I'm sure there are numerous variables coming into play.
I'm sure the ammo has a lot to do with it, as it is put together for military application, where more rounds downrange are used vice precision.
I haven't looked too much into the actual makeup of the barrels between the 2 rifles, but there is a possibility that the longer barrel is stiffer, thus giving better results.

And sorry for the confusion, i was speaking of MOA.
I could only wish/dream to be getting 1" groupings starting at 700yds.
I'm sure it's possible, but something tells me Lucky Charms, and horse shoes would be involved.

On a different note, does anyone have any tips on wind calculations?
I think in the past i have had luck with just random guessing.
Is this more of a skill that is acquired through practice?

On the range i have setup in the toolies (off-grid), i put flaggers tape up on sticks and random markers (different colors for different range), and i use those to read the wind shifts as i reach further out with a shot.
It is a clearcut area, about 4-500yds across, and probably about 2 miles long, shooting position is about 20 degrees above, so i am aiming at a downward angle (chose this way for safety, as there are no burms plowed in).
Now, i know that flight path and alot of other things are going to change, as i am starting the round at a -20 degree angle right out of the spout, compared to if i was at a flat shooting position (0-degree elevation from horizon) or elevated (angled uphill, 20-40 degree), so the fall of shot i'm assuming starts immediately.

Does that make sense?
 
For me it would be a 338 Lupua with a heavy 30 inch barrel and a 25 power X 55MM with a 30MM tube in a nightforce scope and a 300 grain Burger Hybrid bullet followed by 103.8 grains of Retumbo. My dream rifle for long range shooting is a 416 Barret but who can afford one?
 
eaglesnester said:
For me it would be a 338 Lupua with a heavy 30 inch barrel and a 25 power X 55MM with a 30MM tube in a nightforce scope and a 300 grain Burger Hybrid bullet followed by 103.8 grains of Retumbo. My dream rifle for long range shooting is a 416 Barret but who can afford one?
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Who can afford either of those?
I'd love to lay in the dirt with a MacMillan TAC50, with as many rounds as it takes to dislocate my shoulder, then i switch and use the other side.......but there i go dreaming again.

I've never layed my hands on a Lupua, but they definitely are beautiful.
I saw a thread on a 308 version of the Lupua, but i've never come across one yet.
If the price was reasonable, i would be interested in one.

I'm kind of partial to the .308 and .223, due to the surplus ammo availability and costs.
 
I don't think the OP has mastered the language we speak on these forums. Either that or he's just full of sh!t and trolling. But seeing as how some newbies have tagged this hoping to learn something...
First off, knowledge is power. I'd recommend reading a couple books by Brian Litz;
Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting
and; Accuracy & Precission for Long Range Shooting
Get yourself the free app called "strelok" for your phone. After chronographing my .308 the strelok app calculated the drop within 1/2moa of my actual shot placements at 600m, and that was without the proper atmospheric data. It was calculating for sea level and Rocky Mountain House is 3232ft ASL, it was shooting high, as it should be in thinner air. Next time I'll check the weather before I go. Average pressure drop is about 1"Hg per 1000ft so you can always SWAG it in a pinch. (Scientific Wild A$$ Guess)
Long range shooting is usually referring to the extent of the supersonic range of the bullet. Extended long range shooting refers to shooting beyond the sub-sonic range of a bullet. Trans-sonic instability and changes in ballistic coefficients can start to wreak havoc with any ballistics calculations, so don't expect miracles or exact science.
To reach out there, beyond that magic 1000 yards, you should start looking at getting 300 WM, 338 Magnum (there's several versions, or if you got the money, .416 Barrett.
Just FYI, I can buy PMC brand .50 BMG cheaper than .338LM
 
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joe.danay said:
I don't think the OP has mastered the language we speak on these forums. Either that or he's just full of sh!t and trolling. But seeing as how some newbies have tagged this hoping to learn something...
First off, knowledge is power. I'd recommend reading a couple books by Brian Litz;
Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting
and; Accuracy & Precission for Long Range Shooting
Get yourself the free app called "strelok" for your phone. After chronographing my .308 the strelok app calculated the drop within 1/2moa of my actual shot placements at 600m, and that was without the proper atmospheric data. It was calculating for sea level and Rocky Mountain House is 3232ft ASL, it was shooting high, as it should be in thinner air. Next time I'll check the weather before I go. Average pressure drop is about 1"Hg per 1000ft so you can always SWAG it in a pinch. (Scientific Wild A$$ Guess)
Long range shooting range shooting is usually referring to the extent of the supersonic range of the bullet. Extended long range shooting refers to shooting beyond the sub-sonic range of a bullet. Trans-sonic instability and changes in ballistic coefficients can start to wreak havic with any ballistics calculations, so don't expect miracles or exact science.
To reach out there, beyond that magic 1000 yards, you should start looking at getting 300 WM, 338 Magnum (there's several versions, or if you got the money, .416 Barrett.
Just FYI, I can buy PMC brand .50 BMG cheaper than .338LM
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Excellent info, thank you.
I am definitely new to this style of shooting, and definitely the lingo, but am eager to get up to speed.
The extent of my experience is pretty much "point, shoot, correct, repeat"......and all self taught.
Started as a kid begging the old man to let me shoot his toys. 30/30, 30-06, 223, S&W 357mag, 303, 308.....and somehow i was always drawn to the .308.

I have a lot to learn about projectiles, loads, grains.....etc.
But have the time and desire to pick it up, and drink from the firehose as it is thrown at me.

I am starting to compile notes on the effects of elevation on flight path as well.
I never noticed it in the past, but once large amount of rounds went downrange at different elevations, i was able to see the effects of elevation and humidity/winds.
I am yet to shoot above the 12-1300ft elevation, so i am sure i'll see a drastic curve in the results.
 
You are most welcome! Some people tend to jump all over a little faux pas.
That basic Strelok app was free on my phone. It's only $5 for the plus version. I only have the free version and had great results.
Plugged in the math and it got me on paper at 600m right off the hop. 5 rounds, 5 inch group at what my range finder said was 641 yards. That equals 0.78 moa (if my math is correct). I've got solid .75 moa groups at 200 yards, but don't expect the same accuracy at longer ranges due to dispersion. Brian Litz's books will get you up to speed on all the little things like spin drift and coriolis that start to affect your shots at longer ranges.
For now, just playing around with the Strelok app will give you a more scientific approach, and save time & money experimenting.
Good luck and happy shooting:)
 
joe.danay said:
You are most welcome! Some people tend to jump all over a little faux pas.
That basic Strelok app was free on my phone. It's only $5 for the plus version. I only have the free version and had great results.
Plugged in the math and it got me on paper at 600m right off the hop. 5 rounds, 5 inch group at what my range finder said was 641 yards. That equals 0.78 moa (if my math is correct). I've got solid .75 moa groups at 200 yards, but don't expect the same accuracy at longer ranges due to dispersion. Brian Litz's books will get you up to speed on all the little things like spin drift and coriolis that start to affect your shots at longer ranges.
For now, just playing around with the Strelok app will give you a more scientific approach, and save time & money experimenting.
Good luck and happy shooting:)
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definitely getting that app.
The only experience i have with spin drift is just my personal notes i've written down when noticing taking shots when there are certain cross winds, or head winds.
The good and bad thing about where i am shooting is, due to the way the area is made up, it funnels the wind down the clear cut, so i usually have about a 5-10km wind on a light day, and up to 25+ on a cloudy/windy'r day.

Going to get me those Brian Litz books though.
I'm willing to bet i have more bad habits than i should, and could steer me in the right direction.
 
joe.danay said:
I don't think the OP has mastered the language we speak on these forums. Either that or he's just full of sh!t and trolling. But seeing as how some newbies have tagged this hoping to learn something...
First off, knowledge is power. I'd recommend reading a couple books by Brian Litz;
Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting
and; Accuracy & Precission for Long Range Shooting
Get yourself the free app called "strelok" for your phone. After chronographing my .308 the strelok app calculated the drop within 1/2moa of my actual shot placements at 600m, and that was without the proper atmospheric data. It was calculating for sea level and Rocky Mountain House is 3232ft ASL, it was shooting high, as it should be in thinner air. Next time I'll check the weather before I go. Average pressure drop is about 1"Hg per 1000ft so you can always SWAG it in a pinch. (Scientific Wild A$$ Guess)
Long range shooting range shooting is usually referring to the extent of the supersonic range of the bullet. Extended long range shooting refers to shooting beyond the sub-sonic range of a bullet. Trans-sonic instability and changes in ballistic coefficients can start to wreak havic with any ballistics calculations, so don't expect miracles or exact science.
To reach out there, beyond that magic 1000 yards, you should start looking at getting 300 WM, 338 Magnum (there's several versions, or if you got the money, .416 Barrett.
Just FYI, I can buy PMC brand .50 BMG cheaper than .338LM
Click to expand...

Do they make that app, strelok, for iPad?
 
6MT said:
Do they make that app, strelok, for iPad?
Click to expand...

IDK, but there's more than Strelok out there. Search the web store for apps and you should find something. I don't think that the basic strelok calculates spin drift, because without wind input, it's 0.0 horizontal correction all the way out. I was getting about .25-.50 moa drift at 600m with 168gn .308 @ 2728fps average velocity (according to my chrony). I'm running 1:10 twist Savage 10TR 24" barrel. Ballpark spin drift plus coriolis at 1000 yards will usually be around 1moa to the right. (if you're shooting Nort/South, you'd see about .25moa coriolis vertically shooting East/West) Actual results may vary...

Edit: The Litz books will be great for you because it mostly models the .308 Win and later adds the 300WM and .338LM for comparrison. If memory serves correctly, I eventually found the books on Grouse River's website. Couldn't find them at any Chapters store.
 
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Please god close this thread. First he said it's my first post and I'm looking for a gun to shoot 2000 yards. I already was smelling some manure but had to read more. Then he says he shoots 1" groups at 1000 yards with a 308. The. He said he does that with surplus ammo, which I can't even get 1" group at 100 yards with surplus. Then he tells me he does it out of a $500 factory rifle. Like honestly what's next? He does it standing free hand with iron sights.
 
Chago said:
Please god close this thread. First he said it's my first post and I'm looking for a gun to shoot 2000 yards. I already was smelling some manure but had to read more. Then he says he shoots 1" groups at 1000 yards with a 308. The. He said he does that with surplus ammo, which I can't even get 1" group at 100 yards with surplus. Then he tells me he does it out of a $500 factory rifle. Like honestly what's next? He does it standing free hand with iron sights.
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calgarycanada said:
^^^^^^^
Agree
Either he's a troll or one of us just pulling our leg.
His posts should be in funny thread.
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Haha, put away the torches and pitchforks boys and girls, he did clear it up a few posts back:

Mako22 said:
, i was speaking of MOA.
I could only wish/dream to be getting 1" groupings starting at 700yds.
I'm sure it's possible, but something tells me Lucky Charms, and horse shoes would be involved.
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OP, you might want to go back and change your opening post. Some folks will read the first post and skip through the rest of the thread, posting their reply.
 
Mister Donut said:
Haha, put away the torches and pitchforks boys and girls, he did clear it up a few posts back:




OP, you might want to go back and change your opening post. Some folks will read the first post and skip through the rest of the thread, posting their reply.
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Ok he cleared up one of the 4 lies lol. I read the whole thread I guess I missed that post. But there was more then one prior to that one where he repeated yes 1" at 1000. So later he must have realized no one believed him so it's time to back pedal.

Either way this is entertaining. Ill join in.

OP if you want my honest opinion. A 22LR is the perfect rifle for 2000yards. Use 55 grain hollow points. They pierce through the wind. I've been getting 1/2 MOA at 900 yards with my current load. I've been tweaking it slightly and think ill get it out to 1200 yards this weekend. Oh ya forgot to mention its a 12" barrel.
 
OP, get in touch with Longshot, and/or Gunnerlove. They're 2 of Canada's top shooters and live in BC. I'm sure they'll have you squared away, and wired tight in no time at all.
 
Tenguns said:
OP, get in touch with Longshot, and/or Gunnerlove. They're 2 of Canada's top shooters and live in BC. I'm sure they'll have you squared away, and wired tight in no time at all.
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thx for the info *Tenguns*

As for the others that "skim-read" my original post, maybe re-read it and come to a better conclusion as to what i was asking.
I wanted advice on what i could get to push me out to 1500-2000yds. (economically)
And as clarified in a few posts, it is not 1-1.5" groupings....it's MOA.
These are not 100% each time out, this is at a 60-70% variable, which are observed when i have better days out than others (obviously under better weather conditions, or whatever other demons aren't coming into play). (again, as stated a few times thoughout this thread)
Stock rifle, surplus ammo, yes. And it is possible to be a good shot with something stock. If i was a competitive shooter, then obviously i would dump a morgage payment into a full setup......but like previously stated, i'm NEW....wanting advise and mentoring......but it sounds like some egos and #### swinging started happening.

I was under the impression, and was told by the member that referred me here, that i would get the guidance and assistance i was looking for. All i had to do was state what i was up to, the results i was getting, and with what gear, and i'd be pointed in the direction to get me on course. I am sure there are members that would help someone of my below amature status bring some skills up an possibly one day get to a competitive level.
Sorry i didn't belly up to the table with a Lupua .338 or .50cal and brag about how good i am. Looks like honesty, although i don't know the appropriate terminology that you use in this forum, is not what they're looking for here.

SO, i'll just keep shooting my STOCK .308, with my SURPLUS Romanian/Czech ammo, and getting the results i reported originally.
I'm done.
 
Mako22 said:
thx for the info *Tenguns*

As for the others that "skim-read" my original post, maybe re-read it and come to a better conclusion as to what i was asking.
I wanted advice on what i could get to push me out to 1500-2000yds. (economically)
And as clarified in a few posts, it is not 1-1.5" groupings....it's MOA.
These are not 100% each time out, this is at a 60-70% variable, which are observed when i have better days out than others (obviously under better weather conditions, or whatever other demons aren't coming into play). (again, as stated a few times thoughout this thread)
Stock rifle, surplus ammo, yes. And it is possible to be a good shot with something stock. If i was a competitive shooter, then obviously i would dump a morgage payment into a full setup......but like previously stated, i'm NEW....wanting advise and mentoring......but it sounds like some egos and #### swinging started happening.

I was under the impression, and was told by the member that referred me here, that i would get the guidance and assistance i was looking for. All i had to do was state what i was up to, the results i was getting, and with what gear, and i'd be pointed in the direction to get me on course. I am sure there are members that would help someone of my below amature status bring some skills up an possibly one day get to a competitive level.
Sorry i didn't belly up to the table with a Lupua .338 or .50cal and brag about how good i am. Looks like honesty, although i don't know the appropriate terminology that you use in this forum, is not what they're looking for here.

SO, i'll just keep shooting my STOCK .308, with my SURPLUS Romanian/Czech ammo, and getting the results i reported originally.
I'm done.
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What I REALLY want to know is where you are getting this surplus Romanian/Czech .308 (7.62x51mm NATO) ammo.
 
jparent said:
What I REALLY want to know is where you are getting this surplus Romanian/Czech .308 (7.62x51mm NATO) ammo.
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I got some from BadgerArms a couple years back, but they have been long out of stock.
There are a few places that can get it by the case of 500, but it seems the surplus crates of 1440 are as rare as pope-$hit.

http://ww w.luckygunner.com/762x51mm-149-gr-fmj-blackgun-500-rounds

(Federal - NOT SURPLUS - $399/per 500.....i won't pay that)
http://www.theammosource.com/index....d=3658&zenid=7adfb1382c3cf41643093ed0a0131d75

Norinco
http://w ww.bullseyelondon.com/norinco-308-win-7-62x51-147gr-can-500-rounds.html

Chinese Surplus - SOLD OUT
https://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/product.jsp?productid=80909

I have thought about trying a russian SKS, because there availability of the 7.62x39 is everywhere....and CHEAP.
Only wish i could put that in the .308 without worrying about the round sliding sideways and blowing up in my face.
 
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