.308 at Longer Ranges

[Mystic Precision]

To have a lot of fun at LR, does not require a fancy nor expensive rifle. We have taken factory Savage, Kowa, Rems, you name it to 1000yds. Groups may not be tiny but who cares... with GOOD AMMO, a large pizza box was in real trouble at the K.

And there in lies the problem if you do not reload. I am unaware of any factory match ammo that is made to tolerance enough to really get the most out of any rifle.. even a factory rifle. I am not saying you have to do all the anal competition stuff, but at least control consistency in sizing, primer and powder charge. Using a good accurate bullet seated to function best. Not hard stuff but the results are obvious beyond 600m.

So if you have a modern factory rifle in good working order, properly bedded and a scope that will track and let you see the target, send some lead. The distance of 1000yds really isn't that big a deal nor that far... it isn't.

Where shooters run into problem is all their "sins" show up that far away and no matter what they do, bullets land in random patterns.

If that happens, time to take a good hard look at shooter skill, rests and ammo... maybe even a scope although most modern scopes will hold POI for this level of fun.

If you have something that is shooting well at say 600yds, dial the extra elevation and send a shot. As long as you can see the bullet impact, you can adjust elevation as needed. If you are constantly fighting high and low shots, it is likely the ammo.

The left and right part is more then likely wind... that is the fun and skill of LR HITTING.

Jerry

 

[Mystic Precision]

If you want to make a 1000 yard poke, ya better start reloading, get a better scope, get better bullets with higher b.c., start reading and start spending money. A bull barrel of 24-26 inches would serve you better. 308 max effective range is considered to be 800 yards.

I think you want to revisit the current tech for 308 Win. On a moderate wind day, there really isn't much given up by a bipod driven FTR vs an F open rig at 1000yds. And I consider a 5" X/V ring a viable target at the K

I have taken "light" bullets beyond 1400yds. Been spotting for a shooter that tagged at 1800yds.

Shooters having been shooting Palma bullets to 1200yds for decades.

So maybe the military and their toys have limits, precision shooters are not saddled by that at all.

Jerry

 

[condomboy]

I think you want to revisit the current tech for 308 Win. On a moderate wind day, there really isn't much given up by a bipod driven FTR vs an F open rig at 1000yds. And I consider a 5" X/V ring a viable target at the K

I have taken "light" bullets beyond 1400yds. Been spotting for a shooter that tagged at 1800yds.

Shooters having been shooting Palma bullets to 1200yds for decades.

So maybe the military and their toys have limits, precision shooters are not saddled by that at all.

Jerry

Military are saddled with effective kill range, hitting paper or knockin on some steel is different than going after opposing personel

 

[swissinn]

I think you want to revisit the current tech for 308 Win. On a moderate wind day, there really isn't much given up by a bipod driven FTR vs an F open rig at 1000yds. And I consider a 5" X/V ring a viable target at the K

I have taken "light" bullets beyond 1400yds. Been spotting for a shooter that tagged at 1800yds.

Shooters having been shooting Palma bullets to 1200yds for decades.

So maybe the military and their toys have limits, precision shooters are not saddled by that at all.

Jerry

Ya that whole "Geneva convention" thing really kills our long range buzz.

 

[DG Photography]

Swissin I think you need to tighten up them 1500M groups up with some hand loads lol! I think the 709 gr Sniper Elites are showing too much vertical ;-)

 

[DG Photography]

Shooting suppressed .50s can make you a Flinchy Flincher you better have your #### squared away or you will fatigue and get sore real fast. I know cause I still anticipate when shooting suppressed .50 getting better but still it takes some skill and trigger time to master a Fifty with a can.

 

[swissinn]

Swissin I think you need to tighten up them 1500M groups up with some hand loads lol! I think the 709 gr Sniper Elites are showing too much vertical ;-)

Haha the infamous 3.5 inch 1500m group. Its my unicorn...

 

[Mystic Precision]

Ya that whole "Geneva convention" thing really kills our long range buzz.

Well, there are always OTM bullets :-0

Jerry

 

[J996]

. 308 max effective range is considered to be 800 yards.

According to the Marine Corps its a bit more than that.....with a 175 SMK.

 

[Kevin M.]

Haha the infamous 3.5 inch 1500m group. Its my unicorn...

Pffft... Guys on CGN get better groups than that every day of the week, and twice on Sundays!

Now lets see the original photo before it was cropped.

 

[Shooter ----/]

I recovered one of my 175 SMKs from the dirt at ~1040 yards. Aside from rifling marks, it looks pretty much new.

 

[DG Photography]

The M118LR 175 gr the Military snipers use is not the same stuff available for commercial sales;-)

 

[J996]

The M118LR 175 gr the Military snipers use is not the same stuff available for commercial sales;-)

I know they have changed components around over time but at one point it was the 175 SMK, IMR 4064 @2600 fps. If i recall they got a court ruling allowing them to use the match king (have that article in a book, would have to find it). What bullet are they using now?

 

[condomboy]

Pffft... Guys on CGN get better groups than that every day of the week, and twice on Sundays!

Now lets see the original photo before it was cropped.

come on!!! no one would lie or imbelish their groups or the distance they were shot... that would just be too saucy!

And this pic wasn't cropped or photoshopped... they just got within 20 feet of the gong and then held the pad of paper up to it so it just LOOKS like it's touching...

all kidding aside, great shooting!

.308 is a great round, there are better ones for longer ranges just for the sheer fact of ballistic coefficient but I'm happy with .308 to go to 1,000+ and it's definately a great starter caliber to get your feet wet in the medium distance game

 

[Mystic Precision]

The irony with current military limits for the 308 have little to do with ammo and everything to do with mags.

Adding insult, a large portion of US bolt rifles were LONG actions but short mags.

But there is a movement in the US services to review this as bullet tech changes so dramatically.

FTR rifles now produce performance at or above conventional 300WM loadings. My FTR load exceeds a 300WM/180gr SST load at 1000yds. And I am not doing anything weird or dangerous. All off the rack stuff but different set up.

If the mags went from 2.8" to 3.2", the performance potential and "effective range" would jump another 400yds...

Simple for us... not so for the big boys.

Jerry

 

[klink1983]

I know they have changed components around over time but at one point it was the 175 SMK, IMR 4064 @2600 fps. If i recall they got a court ruling allowing them to use the match king (have that article in a book, would have to find it). What bullet are they using now?

I thought they were using IMR4895.... this changes things with my inventory slightly.

 

[J996]

I thought they were using IMR4895.... this changes things with my inventory slightly.

That was the old M118 from the 70's and 80's. It used a 173 grain bullet and 42 grains of IMR 4895 (2550fps). This was alo known as the "Dupont load". I had a whole bunch of it from 1972, it shot good but its bullet design was not as good as the 175 grain bullet used in modern M118LR.

 

[hawk-i]

That was the old M118 from the 70's and 80's. It used a 173 grain bullet and 42 grains of IMR 4895 (2550fps). This was alo known as the "Dupont load". I had a whole bunch of it from 1972, it shot good but its bullet design was not as good as the 175 grain bullet used in modern M118LR.

Just curious if you have the IMR 4064 powder charge for the M118LR round?

 

[J996]

Just curious if you have the IMR 4064 powder charge for the M118LR round?

I don't have the 4064 charge weight on hand but that info is on snipershide somewhere. I if I recall someone pulled down M118LR rounds and measured what the charge was, now it did vary slightly from lot to lot but was made to give 2600 fps.

When I developed the load for my rifle I copied the older dupont loading with IMR4895 as that was very consitent and accurate (and I have tons of it). It is a 175SMK, Lapua case (FL sized nothing more done) M34 primer, 41 grains IMR4895, bullet seated 2.245 at Ogive (15thou off lands) velocity 2560fps. It's a nice modest load that shoots groups in the .3's out of my AI providing I am having a good day.

 

[JDM_greg]

Just curious if you have the IMR 4064 powder charge for the M118LR round?

Might be silly to trust...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System#Match-Grade_Ammunition

"7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range: A 175-grain round consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers and an undisclosed modified extruded propellant. The 7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range cartridges have an accuracy requirement based around 10-round shotgroups. The Propellant has been verified as IMR 4064 (per NSN 1305-01-567-6944 and Federal Cartridge Company Contract/Order Number N0016408DJN28 and has a charge weight per the specs of 41.745 grains)."