300 RUM & 416 rigby, Another which cartridge thread

Ardent said:
You came in here admirably frank for the internet, so good on you. Mind if I ask why you don't like the .375 H&H? Forgive me, it's my dear cartridge which I've put to work in a good few places on this planet, and have yet to find a shortcoming. It's a bit like defending a brother, someone says they don't like him, and you immediately have to question what they find wrong with him. ;)

The .375 H&H,

-Shoots as flat as a .300 mag using 235-260gr.
-Reaches as far as a .300 mag, delivering more energy at 500 yards than .45-70 factory at the muzzle.
-Offers a bullet range of 200 to 380 grains, customizable to any situation.
-The most proven dangerous game cartridge on the planet. It can act as a fast .30 or a .416 depending what hat it wears as a bullet.
-I've found ammo from Fort Nelson BC to backwoods Zimbabwe.
-Recoil is tolerable for most experienced shooters.
-Only 69.5 grains of powder will move a 350gr solid at 2450fps. That's encroaching on .416 Rigby with more cartridges in the magazine, and a lot less recoil.
-Alternatively, 84 grains of powder will move a 270gr Barnes at 3,000fps, doing everything a .300 does but with a lot more authority on target.

I'd reevaluate your opinion on the .375 H&H. :)
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Do not re evaluate, your opinion is justified and I had looked at a sako anniversary model but they wanted $3000~ for the rifle and I would've bought it in 375 if not for that price. I'm
No millionaire but a $1400 rifle isn't that big an expense to justify once a hunting season :) between the motorcycles trucks and chainsaws I bought this year a 416 might be the most practical unnecessary purchase this year for me. I think my dislike of the 375 is predijucial of the "minimum caliber" rule on big game. I never like minimums, even if it's much more then needed. I didn't think these calibers would have the jump in recoil I've seen described I didn't think the 338 rum I shot 3 rounds the 3rd and final hitting my nose was that bad but maybe my memory is more silver lined then it should be. Thanks everyone again and if you have anything to add please do
 
@Boomer I intend to buy a tikka t3 hunter stainless (because it's beautiful to me) but in a more white tail caliber. Thank you though they're great rifles.
 
cupar1 said:
Do not re evaluate, your opinion is justified and I had looked at a sako anniversary model but they wanted $3000~ for the rifle and I would've bought it in 375 if not for that price. I'm
No millionaire but a $1400 rifle isn't that big an expense to justify once a hunting season :) between the motorcycles trucks and chainsaws I bought this year a 416 might be the most practical unnecessary purchase this year for me. I think my dislike of the 375 is predijucial of the "minimum caliber" rule on big game. I never like minimums, even if it's much more then needed. I didn't think these calibers would have the jump in recoil I've seen described I didn't think the 338 rum I shot 3 rounds the 3rd and final hitting my nose was that bad but maybe my memory is more silver lined then it should be. Thanks everyone again and if you have anything to add please do
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There are decent .375s available under a grand, like the Zastavas. A Model 70 Winchester will run $1000-1500, a Ruger RSM under $2,000 and sometimes down to $1,500. I wouldn't sweat $3,000 when as Dogleg mentions you're paying for one box what you paid for the whole crate of ammo for your VZ.
 
I've shot both.. (but hunt with the 300) the one nice thing I like about the 300RUM are the new power load levels you can buy (or reload the same).. give the round a bit more versatility then the 416.

one thing you will want regardless of the cartridge is a rifle with some weight to it.. my 300RUM is in a 700 synthetic stock, and it kicks like a mule since it's so light (but I'm used to it by now.. I have about 300 rounds through it)
 
$3000 for a $3000 rifle is fine, but $3000 for a $1600~rifle that says anniversary and comes with a fancy carry case, that's an issue. I found pre-load ammo for $9.50/round+GST for .416 rigby should I buy their stock and re-sell with a mark up? It was barnes 400 grain.

My next four rifles intend to be tikka in .243win, markV in .270 weatherby, and I'd like to get both the rifles I mentioned in the original post. I pay $.70~ a round of .223 (I have an unopened crate of 1120 5.56 norinco from a sponsor) $1.20~ for 12G, 300wsm has $2.60 a round. There is cheaper ammo and I'm sure there's more expensive but this what I pay for the ammo I buy. However $9.50 /Round may be 4x more expensive it's not exactly going to be a plinker and yearly ammo cost would still be fairly low. plinkers are 7.62 and 22lr.
 
ckc123 said:
I've shot both.. (but hunt with the 300) the one nice thing I like about the 300RUM are the new power load levels you can buy (or reload the same).. give the round a bit more versatility then the 416.

one thing you will want regardless of the cartridge is a rifle with some weight to it.. my 300RUM is in a 700 synthetic stock, and it kicks like a mule since it's so light (but I'm used to it by now.. I have about 300 rounds through it)
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That's one of the marketing ploys I've heard about is power level 1,2, and 3 ammo. I think it's a little silly but it's a valid point and I'm glad you brought it up. I think power 1 is marketed as equal to .308 and power 2 is 30-06.

Again great post as gun weight does help with recoil as well. Unfortunately I've shot 700's and even with wood stock and thick barrel options it's still a small rifle. My brother put a bi-pod on his 700sps and said the weight made noticeably less recoil, not night and day but noticeable.

I haven't seen a posted weight on a cz550 but I can imagine it's not going to be heavy enough to dull the recoil, I believe someone said they felt it to heavy to carry around all day in the bush though.
 
cupar1 said:
That's one of the marketing ploys I've heard about is power level 1,2, and 3 ammo. I think it's a little silly but it's a valid point and I'm glad you brought it up. I think power 1 is marketed as equal to .308 and power 2 is 30-06.
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it depends on why you bought it in the first place.. I bought my 300rum to hunt moose.. I use a 30-06 for deer, and using the powerlevel 1, I bring it as a "backup" in case any of the guys have a problem with their guns etc.. at the distances we shoot deer (50-100 yards) it's effectivly the same zero..
 
ckc123 said:
I've shot both.. (but hunt with the 300) the one nice thing I like about the 300RUM are the new power load levels you can buy (or reload the same).. give the round a bit more versatility then the 416.

one thing you will want regardless of the cartridge is a rifle with some weight to it.. my 300RUM is in a 700 synthetic stock, and it kicks like a mule since it's so light (but I'm used to it by now.. I have about 300 rounds through it)
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So buy a 300RUM and then neuter it? Does that make any sense at all?

OP, I love my Rigby, but you're shooting experience has "noobsausage" written all over it and you will undoubtedly end up with an incurable flinch if you don't work your way home to it. The 416 Rigby with a 400gr bullet at 2400fps has damn near the same trajectory as the 180gr 30-06 does and that's damn near the best cartridge and bullet combination for North America. It'll reach and kill pretty much whatever you need to kill from a few feet to 400 yards.
 
BigUglyMan said:
So buy a 300RUM and then neuter it? Does that make any sense at all?
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never said that I did.. read the post again I bought the 300rum to hunt moose (full power load).. but the BONUS, is that I can also use it for deer.. I've used it on deer with a power level 3 load.. straight through and barely opened.. with the powerlevel 1 load it left a lot more damage behind...
 
@ckc I would use different guns as oppose to using lower power level rounds. However it's still a very nice feature. It's alot easier to carry a couple extra power 1 bullets instead of a completely different rifle combination if you have multiple tags for different game.

I do mean complete offense to biguglymean that based on your language and 10,000+ posts that I'm including you in the group I mentioned in my first post. "inexperienced but like sharing your opinion". However thanks for sharing an opinion, sorry I feel the need to not take much from it.

I will take the "incurable flinch" comment though, I don't believe it to be real. I understand flinching, I've seen alot of first shooters flinch. I've seen experianced shooters flinch not knowing what to expect. However I have never personally experienced a flinch that lasted.
 
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cupar1 said:
I do mean complete offense to biguglymean that based on your language and 10,000+ posts that I'm including you in the group I mentioned in my first post. "inexperienced but like sharing your opinion". However thanks for sharing an opinion, sorry I feel the need to not take much from it.

I will take the "incurable flinch" comment though, I don't believe it to be real. I understand flinching, I've seen alot of first shooters flinch. I've seen experianced shooters flinch not knowing what to expect. However I have never personally experienced a flinch that lasted.
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You might be surprised by BigUglyMan's lack of inexperience, he won't bother telling you himself so I'll do it on his behalf. Amongst other things he's hunted dangerous game in Africa, he's hunted the Wood Bison you seek to chase, and he owns a .416 Rigby. He's not trying to be mean, just pragmatic and frank.
 
.416 rigby compaired to a 45-70







The rigby requires a lot of adjustment in your shooting habit's...
It takes time to learn how to shoot it, Hornady DGX is around $100 per box of 20, recoil is substantial and impressive...
I'd strongly advise against getting into a rigby this late into the year.
 
Maybe I'm the odd man out but I'd much rather shoot a 416 than a 300 RUM.

As a former RO I used to watch guys show up with their brand spanking new 700 SPS's in 300 RUM just before hunting season..

I'd watch them slide those long 300's out, load a round, touch one off, and then watch for the "WTF just happened" expression on their face"! :)

Did get a lot of free brass. One or two at a time mind you!
 
The 300 RUM has a fast sharp recoil that reminds me of getting smacked with a baseball bat... the .416 gives you the sensation of trying to catch something too heavy that's been thrown at you really fast... With either cartridge if your attention is not on the rifle 100% of the time you are going to regret it in the most painful way imaginable... One does not simply snap shoot a big boomer without practicing to the point shouldering and body position are instinctive and repetitive... Alas, to understand this statement I'd suggest the very first time you fire one to be squared off to the rifle while seated at the bench, after that you will try every position known to man whilst standing to avoid feeling such pain ever again... Practice practice practice...

My rigby is an Encore PH, it's a 7-8ish pound rifle with iron sights, it has a brake and the flex-tech stock with a limb saver... Try as I may after I take a shot at my local range I cannot persuade many people to accept a chance to fire it... Good thing too, at 105gr of powder and almost $3 per projectile it gets expensive to shoot.
 
....oh yes, and with either cartridge there will be "some" noise... Not enough to permanently damage your hearing while wearing plugs but take them out and your ears will ring for a day or two.
 
The RUM is a little pushy in an SPS alright. Mine is a custom Sako that is closer to 10 pounds dressed. Recoil is tolerable, but it is loud enough for 10 rifles. I used it on a cull hunt until I got good and tired of burning myself and put it away. Popped a water buffalo and great scrub bull with it.

I've got mixed feelings about the .416 Rigby; I got my first buffalo with mine, a couple elephants and some other things and still don't know what to make of it. In return for double the recoil of a .375 H&H and expensive components it delivers nothing extra on target that I could ever detect. If you really want to whack something jump right to the .458s.

I still think that a new shooter shouldn't be thinking about either one, but my mean streak is kicking in......................................:p
 
My experience with the mighty 375 was a H&H reamed to a weatherby, the rifle was rather elegant yet I doubt it topped 6lbs with a sling... At the time it was far more rifle than I had ever fired... It was "too much" and hardend my resolve that such cartridges were unnecessary, fast forward 17yrs and and I have come to appreciate rifles that are accurate and rifles that make large holes in there targets.... Hence why this will be sent thru a North American white tail this fall.







I do hope this 350 grain Swift Aframe will humanely put down a meat doe for me, I hear many hunters out there are having issues with the 300wm and 300 wizzzumbangflops and I don't like the thought of being under gunned... I would have opted for the 410 grain woodleigh FMJ's but I hear they are frowned apon hunting large game in alberta...
 
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