New Tavor looking like a demo rifle

I have to point out that while your new one appeared unfired compared to the old one, the new one has indeed been test fired at factory. I believe they fire a full mag to test function.

However, that is a minor technicality and the firearm is supposed to have been "cleaned" and oiled afterwards.

Maybe your original one missed cleaning, but that still doesn't explain the stripped screws.
 
onetwentyish said:
I have to point out that while your new one appeared unfired compared to the old one, the new one has indeed been test fired at factory. I believe they fire a full mag to test function.

However, that is a minor technicality and the firearm is supposed to have been "cleaned" and oiled afterwards.

Maybe your original one missed cleaning, but that still doesn't explain the stripped screws.
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Yep, as far as I know all firearms are test fired then go through a cleaning line. As I said upthread I sold firearms at a retail level and a new gun from the factory has a unmistakable look. I asked the retailer if they had seen any liked I described and they had not seen any with either dirty magwells or stripped screws. I dont have any skin in the game anymore but my rifle with hundreds of rounds through it is cleaner now than the other one was when it came in.
 
11l0obo.jpg


Take note at the integrated sights underneath the removable front sight.
It is slanted to the left.
 
Old_Joe said:
Then the Consumer Protection Act disagrees with you. I would call them up and tell them to change the Act.

I dont want a discount, I want a new rifle.
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The Ontario Consumer Protection Act covers this. Specifically 14.(2)4., which reads:

(2) Without limiting the generality of what constitutes a false, misleading or deceptive representation, the following are included as false, misleading or deceptive representations:

1....

4. A representation that the goods are new, or unused, if they are not or are reconditioned or reclaimed, but the reasonable use of goods to enable the person to service, prepare, test and deliver the goods does not result in the goods being deemed to be used for the purposes of this paragraph.

5....
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I'm not very familiar with the Alberta Consumer Protection legislation, but I'd be shocked if it didn't contain a similar section. Could you please provide citation proving what you said? I also find it dishonest that you didn't include the entirety of 14.(2)4. in your quote.
 
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Ar180shooter said:
The Ontario Consumer Protection Act covers this. Specifically 14.(2)4., which reads:



I'm not very familiar with the Alberta Consumer Protection legislation, but I'd be shocked if it didn't contain a similar section. Could you please provide citation proving what you said? I also find it dishonest that you didn't include the entirety of 14.(2)4. in your quote.
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I have no idea what you want here. The cite is the Ontario Consumer Protection Act which I quoted here. (the online guy is in Ont) If you want contact them and they will be happy to speak with you. The people there disagree with you, take it up with them.

If the rifle in question was in the same as what I bought locally then great however the local one was in pristine condition and the previous one was not.

I had a retail store for many years and am well aware of the Prov Regs. If you have any experience to the contrary please explain. I have returned the rifle and have accepted the explanation that it came from the supplier in that condition so in my mind its done.
 
Old_Joe said:
I have no idea what you want here. The cite is the Ontario Consumer Protection Act which I quoted here. (the online guy is in Ont) If you want contact them and they will be happy to speak with you. The people there disagree with you, take it up with them.

If the rifle in question was in the same as what I bought locally then great however the local one was in pristine condition and the previous one was not.

I had a retail store for many years and am well aware of the Prov Regs. If you have any experience to the contrary please explain. I have returned the rifle and have accepted the explanation that it came from the supplier in that condition so in my mind its done.
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I had said that technically, a display model firearm is still a new firearm under the act. You disagreed with me, so I posted the relevant section of the CPA which says it is still considered a new firearm. You're still disagreeing with me, but make no attempt to refute what I posted other than "I know the regs, I had a retail store", which quite honestly doesn't carry much weight with me. You keep saying "take it up with them", but provide no other references. A display model firearm hasn't been shot or used in any way by the staff or potential buyers, only taken out of the box and looked at. This does not constitute used.
 
Ar180shooter said:
A Display model firearm hasn't been shot or used in any way by the staff or potential buyers, only taken out of the box and looked at. This does not constitute used.
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Again, Im afraid that the folks at the Ontario Consumer Protection Act disagree with you. They say that a display item is not deemed to be new, Instead of just having an opinion phone them and ask like I did. Perhaps they will change the Act for you.
 
Old_Joe said:
Ok here are a couple pictures. I included the front sight for the guy asking about them. My sights go down nice and neat and appear to be plenty straight.

GjJgJhP.jpg

IvGWYbQ.jpg


I bought my tavor from a bricks and mortar retailer. (I am the OP who received a dirty gun with stripped screws) As you can see the screws are fine. The gun was clean and looked new. The magwell was pristine like I would expect, no dirty black grease and no brass pieces or grit. The same three people who looked at the first one looked at this one and the consensus was that that this new one was in fact "new". When removed the recoiling mechanism was new looking with a sheen of oil, obviously unused/unfired, not black dirty grease. In short this gun looked like any new from factory firearm should look like.

I dont know what to tell you guys, I believe the gun I bought previously was a customer return. The screws troubled me and I have been PM'd by a fellow with the same stripped screws from the same online retailer. Once could be a mistake or oversight, twice implies something else entirely.

As I said I received a prompt refund from the online folks and I am happy with that.
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I see a scratch on your rifle, first pic, to name one defect.
 
223762 said:
what does it look like without the sights on the rail? they should not look like that.
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They look the same without the removable sights. I put the removable sight on the rail just for a reference so it is easier to see if the integrated sight is slanted or not.

Brian46 said:
how would you adjust sights properly when they sit crooked?

Not normal

Is this a new purchase? If it is, take/send it back.
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I tried to adjust the slanted sight, no luck. My guess would be that the holes on the rail that are holding the integrated sights were not drilled properly.
It was bought new last month and the retailer stated that it is normal.

Old_Joe said:
Hmmm, never noticed that. I just used the removable sights not the backup ones.
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I don't mind the slanted integrated sights but since the integrated front sight is part of the rail....if I mount optic or iron sight on it, the sight might lose zero because the rails are not straight.
 
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andrew3081 said:
I tried to adjust the slanted sight, no luck. My guess would be that the holes on the rail that are holding the integrated sights were not drilled properly.
It was bought new last month and the retailer stated that it is normal.
I don't mind the slanted integrated sights but since the integrated front sight is part of the rail....if I mount optic or iron sight on it, the sight might lose zero because the rails are not straight.
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Its too bad that you didnt notice right off. I have had very good luck buying used online but Im wary of the new now. Good lesson I suppose.
 
Old_Joe said:
Again, Im afraid that the folks at the Ontario Consumer Protection Act disagree with you. They say that a display item is not deemed to be new, Instead of just having an opinion phone them and ask like I did. Perhaps they will change the Act for you.
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Out of curiosity, do we know what constitutes a "display model" for a firearm? When I walk into a shop and there are 100+ guns on the display racks, are these considered display models? Should I expect a discount if I buy one of these guns? There must be some sort of limitation to the interpretation of this section of the act regarding display models. Think about clothing, vehicles etc which are all on display to be viewed and handled by potential buyers. There's no way a retailer's entire stock of such items would be considered "non-new".
 
BadRonald said:
Out of curiosity, do we know what constitutes a "display model" for a firearm? When I walk into a shop and there are 100+ guns on the display racks, are these considered display models? Should I expect a discount if I buy one of these guns?
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Firearms on display and available to the general public to handle are in fact not "New". This is not a problem unless advertised as new. Advertise them as "Like New" or "Display" and its fine. I did offer a discount for the display models however I didnt want to sell them unless I was out of stock and that was my last one. I wanted to maintain my margin and if I sold the display everytime I wouldn't make as much profit. This is why you see a sign stating "Display Model, Not For Sale" in retail stores.

Wouldn't hurt to ask for a discount, they are not obligated to give you one however.

As for clothing I have no idea, I didnt have a clothing store.
 
KevinB said:
Just a small point -- starting a thread on the internet and bashing before contacting the seller is usually considered bad form.

Yeah buying a new gun with an imperfection or two sucks --but it's ALWAYS best to contact the seller, and explain your position.
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This OP didn't bash anyone, so your point is redundant. And not all sponsor sellers respond, when contacted.
 
Old_Joe said:
Firearms on display and available to the general public to handle are in fact not "New". This is not a problem unless advertised as new. Advertise them as "Like New" or "Display" and its fine. I did offer a discount for the display models however I didnt want to sell them unless I was out of stock and that was my last one. I wanted to maintain my margin and if I sold the display everytime I wouldn't make as much profit. This is why you see a sign stating "Display Model, Not For Sale" in retail stores.

Wouldn't hurt to ask for a discount, they are not obligated to give you one however.

As for clothing I have no idea, I didnt have a clothing store.
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Last time I bought a firearm the clerk checked the back and said he had none left so I'd have to take the one on the shelf. It did cross my mind "but hey, isn't that the display model - maybe it will be discounted". I wasn't sure if it would be "appropriate" to ask so I didn't say anything, plus it was in 100% new shape anyway. I know for consumer electronics, for example, it is the norm to discount display models, but I am not sure what the norm is for firearms. I guess it depends on the type of goods and what we as a society have become accustomed to. Next time I will ask, worst they can do is say no.
 
BadRonald said:
Out of curiosity, do we know what constitutes a "display model" for a firearm? When I walk into a shop and there are 100+ guns on the display racks, are these considered display models? Should I expect a discount if I buy one of these guns? There must be some sort of limitation to the interpretation of this section of the act regarding display models. Think about clothing, vehicles etc which are all on display to be viewed and handled by potential buyers. There's no way a retailer's entire stock of such items would be considered "non-new".
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the op's first firearm was clearly damaged and handled (dirty) by the pics. My LGS would not sell that as a new rifle or even a display model.

You compare it to clothing, how many clothes stores do you go to that let greasy handed individuals paw up and down a $2700 shirt damaging it and not having to purchase?
 
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