BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
To be fair, he also wrote about keeping a CZ 550 416 Rigby in his outhouse. That's my kind of crapper.
the ultimate Yukon rifle ... your thoughts
- Thread starter medvedqc
- Start date
To be fair, he also wrote about keeping a CZ 550 416 Rigby in his outhouse. That's my kind of crapper.
bigborefan
Regular
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, ON
If you're gonna carry a .30-06 for everything, everywhere, then you'll never learn to shoot anything bigger... On the other hand, if you learn to shoot and carry a 9.3 X 62 or .375 Ruger, etc, for everything, I guarantee you'll never notice it's recoil when you have to shoot it.
I'd go with the majority here: a 9.3 X 62 shooting 286 Nosler Partitions, or 250 AccuBonds. And yes, a .45-70 is better at close range on bears, but in a Ruger No.1 you can use those pointy TSX's (300s and 350s) way out there. Mine has a long throat, and my bear load this year was a 300gr TSX at 2645 fps. Regarding a 12-gauge for bear defence -- since it's come up again -- I just bought some CHALLENGERS (made in Quebec). They are similar to Brennekes, and at 1610 fps they'll penetrate any bear from stem to stern. Good for a backup (my purpose) or defence.
Bob
www.bigbores.ca
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Well, lets see if I can bring us back on track. If choosing the ultimate Yukon rifle was only a matter of choosing a flat shooting medium bore cartridge, we could simply nominate the .338 Lapua and move onto other matters; but there's more to it than that. The rifle must be light and portable enough that you can resist the temptation of leaving it where you lie gasping for breath high above the tree line, and carry on with only your belt knife. This is not the environment where you heart's desire is a 12 pound rifle topped with a 5.5-25X Nightforce in tactical double steel rings, and a magazine full of quarter pound cartridges. If you're a visiting flat-lander, rather than a local whose acclimatized to the thin warm air, its worse. Now if you happen to be a visiting flat-lander whose feeling his age, lives at sea level, and is used to the thick cold air at a high latitude, you're stuck with the rifle, (you've already thrown the belt knife, and most of your other gear off a cliff) so it better be light. I had the pleasure of using Douglas' M-7 KS in .350 magnum a while back, and immediately appreciated its 6 pound weight and handy dimensions. As soon as we got home we booked another trip, this time for a week at a cabin above the tree line on an alpine lake, and I began my search for a rifle that I could manage for the adventure. It just might be the ultimate Yukon rifle.
I began with the premise of a short action bolt gun, and despite my preference for CRF actions, decided a Remington 700 could be made a bit lighter. I contacted a gunsmith, and asked if he was interested in the project I had in mind. When he suggested that he thought that a long action could still make weight, I didn't hesitate, it would be a long action. I wanted a larger bore than a .35, preferring a 9.3 or a .375, and this bore size in a light contour barrel will make it lighter yet. I thought long and hard about a .375-284, but now that I had the long action, I immediately decided on the 9.3X62. That was the first hiccup, because my barrel maker of choice didn't make a .366 barrel, so the next best thing, and arguably a slightly better choice, is the .375 Scovile, which is a 9.3X62 opened up to .375. I worked with the 9.3 enough to have a pretty good idea of what I could get out of it, and in any bullet weight, the .375 should be a hair faster The barrel will be stainless #3 contour finished at 22" so it would balance slightly muzzle heavy. The muzzle is adorned with a NECG barrel band sight with the brass faced rectangular post insert, and there will be a ghost ring mounted on the rear of the scope base. The barrel and action will be bedded in a Wildcat Composites Ultralight 17 oz Kevlar stock, with a 13.5" LOP with the Decelerator recoil pad. The factory bottom metal is already light, so there's no need for an upgrade there. Thus the weight should end up about 6.5 pounds, and the cartridge has enough authority to easily surpass the legal requirement for bison. But that's not the whole story, and not why this might be the ultimate Yukon rifle. This rifle is a switch barrel, and one of the other barrels is a 24" .280 Ackley. The .280 provides a laser flat trajectory for the occasional long shot on sheep or other mountain game, and the world is full of slippery 7mm big game bullets.
So we've addressed the rifle weight and handling, and the cartridge power, and trajectory. A 1.75-6X Leupold in QD rings will be suitable with either barrel. The versatility that is realized by these two cartridges combined with a compact, light weight, quick handling package makes this the ultimate Yukon rifle. Is it better combination than a .340 Weatherby? Well, the terminal performance of the .375 matches that of the .340 on close range heavy game despite the apparent disparity in velocity, which might well work to the .375's advantage as bullets with lower impact velocities tend to penetrate deeper, and you don't damage tissue you don't reach. The .280 shoots just as flat, as the .340 without kicking you off the pinnacle of some rocky crag. But more importantly this rifle is lighter and handier, and when I'm struggling up those steep grades, its the rifle I'd sooner carry.
I began with the premise of a short action bolt gun, and despite my preference for CRF actions, decided a Remington 700 could be made a bit lighter. I contacted a gunsmith, and asked if he was interested in the project I had in mind. When he suggested that he thought that a long action could still make weight, I didn't hesitate, it would be a long action. I wanted a larger bore than a .35, preferring a 9.3 or a .375, and this bore size in a light contour barrel will make it lighter yet. I thought long and hard about a .375-284, but now that I had the long action, I immediately decided on the 9.3X62. That was the first hiccup, because my barrel maker of choice didn't make a .366 barrel, so the next best thing, and arguably a slightly better choice, is the .375 Scovile, which is a 9.3X62 opened up to .375. I worked with the 9.3 enough to have a pretty good idea of what I could get out of it, and in any bullet weight, the .375 should be a hair faster The barrel will be stainless #3 contour finished at 22" so it would balance slightly muzzle heavy. The muzzle is adorned with a NECG barrel band sight with the brass faced rectangular post insert, and there will be a ghost ring mounted on the rear of the scope base. The barrel and action will be bedded in a Wildcat Composites Ultralight 17 oz Kevlar stock, with a 13.5" LOP with the Decelerator recoil pad. The factory bottom metal is already light, so there's no need for an upgrade there. Thus the weight should end up about 6.5 pounds, and the cartridge has enough authority to easily surpass the legal requirement for bison. But that's not the whole story, and not why this might be the ultimate Yukon rifle. This rifle is a switch barrel, and one of the other barrels is a 24" .280 Ackley. The .280 provides a laser flat trajectory for the occasional long shot on sheep or other mountain game, and the world is full of slippery 7mm big game bullets.
So we've addressed the rifle weight and handling, and the cartridge power, and trajectory. A 1.75-6X Leupold in QD rings will be suitable with either barrel. The versatility that is realized by these two cartridges combined with a compact, light weight, quick handling package makes this the ultimate Yukon rifle. Is it better combination than a .340 Weatherby? Well, the terminal performance of the .375 matches that of the .340 on close range heavy game despite the apparent disparity in velocity, which might well work to the .375's advantage as bullets with lower impact velocities tend to penetrate deeper, and you don't damage tissue you don't reach. The .280 shoots just as flat, as the .340 without kicking you off the pinnacle of some rocky crag. But more importantly this rifle is lighter and handier, and when I'm struggling up those steep grades, its the rifle I'd sooner carry.
While I agree on your choice of a 375 cal (especially that cartridge) and the weight goal of the rifle having a switch barrel while sounding kool just does nothing for me I'm not going to be packing two barrels up that mtn and I am not a flatlander.
I want the 375 cal that has the laser trajectory of the 280 AI that is close to your goal weight.
Which brings me back to my shortened to 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM loaded with 260gr Accubonds or 250gr TTSX @ over 3000fps.
If I wanted lighter weight combo I would pop it into a synthetic stock with another Kick-Eez magnum recoil pad installed on it.
When I want the scope off to use the rifle more towards defense I remove it and pop on my XS Sights tall Weaver backup ghost ring sight and load it with 350gr TTSX @ 2450fps.
This is the synthetic stock I would use for now this is the rifle before I did anything to it.
Yeah Yeah I know I already posted these thoughts but this post has pictures...
I put this rifle/cartridge combo together while working in central/northern BC so understand the needs of a Yukon rifle.
I want the 375 cal that has the laser trajectory of the 280 AI that is close to your goal weight.
Which brings me back to my shortened to 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM loaded with 260gr Accubonds or 250gr TTSX @ over 3000fps.
If I wanted lighter weight combo I would pop it into a synthetic stock with another Kick-Eez magnum recoil pad installed on it.
When I want the scope off to use the rifle more towards defense I remove it and pop on my XS Sights tall Weaver backup ghost ring sight and load it with 350gr TTSX @ 2450fps.
This is the synthetic stock I would use for now this is the rifle before I did anything to it.
Yeah Yeah I know I already posted these thoughts but this post has pictures...
I put this rifle/cartridge combo together while working in central/northern BC so understand the needs of a Yukon rifle.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I think it would make the most sense to stick with a case that has a standard magnum bolt face rather than to go with something in an even fatter case. Realistically the 338 Campfire (338-375 Ruger) would be just about perfect in that it is on a standard length action and is on a standard-girth case.
Until the bears start their jihad. Then all bets under .400" are off.
Until the bears start their jihad. Then all bets under .400" are off.
LOL! Mine too. I love reading Phil's stuff. That guy has put some serious time in tracking wounded bears through "pucker brush". His abreviated .458 win mag is a cool gun too.
^^^as a 'Bear Gun' I picked up a Marlin 1895 SBL Guide Gun in 45/70. It's short, rather light weight, reliable and leaves big holes. It's pure stopping power. Sure hope I never have to use it for the reasons I bought it.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I'm glad the thread finally shifted from big boomers only in regards to "all around" Yukon rifle, as I know for a fact most guys use typical all-arounders here just like everywhere else (.270, .308, .30-06, 303 brit, 30-30, etc)
The other thing people forget often is most guys just cannot handle 338 magnums and up. Hell, some guys flinch hearing about them.
And when guys just start quoting how many tons of energy "cartridge X" has, they've probably forgotten about all those normal shooters out there who can barely manage a stiff loaded 30-06.
And they you get into ammo. Not overybody reloads, and off-the shelf ammo can go dry up here pretty easy unless you stick to common cartridges.
Given a full picture (not just energy levels, or cool factor), I would say the ultimate Yukon rifle is probably a well-fitted, quality 30-06 set up with a good scope and high-end ammunition, unless the rifle is being specifically set up for someone like c-fbmi, who KNOWS he can handle heavy recoil and has everything he needs to reload a lifetime supply of ammo, for his pet cartridge nobody else ever heard of.
The other thing people forget often is most guys just cannot handle 338 magnums and up. Hell, some guys flinch hearing about them.
And when guys just start quoting how many tons of energy "cartridge X" has, they've probably forgotten about all those normal shooters out there who can barely manage a stiff loaded 30-06.
And they you get into ammo. Not overybody reloads, and off-the shelf ammo can go dry up here pretty easy unless you stick to common cartridges.
Given a full picture (not just energy levels, or cool factor), I would say the ultimate Yukon rifle is probably a well-fitted, quality 30-06 set up with a good scope and high-end ammunition, unless the rifle is being specifically set up for someone like c-fbmi, who KNOWS he can handle heavy recoil and has everything he needs to reload a lifetime supply of ammo, for his pet cartridge nobody else ever heard of.
Funny how this statement is repeated over and over concerning the 30.06 no matter where the hunt is.
If I lived there, I could see the use of a 270Win (or close similar) and a 375Magnum (or close similar).
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
While I agree on your choice of a 375 cal (especially that cartridge) and the weight goal of the rifle having a switch barrel while sounding kool just does nothing for me I'm not going to be packing two barrels up that mtn and I am not a flatlander.
I want the 375 cal that has the laser trajectory of the 280 AI that is close to your goal weight.
Which brings me back to my shortened to 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM loaded with 260gr Accubonds or 250gr TTSX @ over 3000fps.
If I wanted lighter weight combo I would pop it into a synthetic stock with another Kick-Eez magnum recoil pad installed on it.
When I want the scope off to use the rifle more towards defense I remove it and pop on my XS Sights tall Weaver backup ghost ring sight and load it with 350gr TTSX @ 2450fps.
This is the synthetic stock I would use for now this is the rifle before I did anything to it.
Yeah Yeah I know I already posted these thoughts but this post has pictures...
I put this rifle/cartridge combo together while working in central/northern BC so understand the needs of a Yukon rifle.
Its difficult for me to argue against the benefits of the .375 Ultra after I championed its use for so long, but lets see what I can do. Naturally with a switch barrel rifle you'd only select one barrel at a time, choosing the appropriate barrel prior to your trip; the .375 would be chosen for heavy game, or for hunting in heavy cover, while the .280 would be chosen for everything else. While the .375 Ultra is a fine do it all cartridge, the .280 is a better open country medium game cartridge, and the .375 Scovile does its job with less drama . . . not that I'm entirely opposed to drama.
I wish I had the opportunity to live in the Yukon but would think a pump Remington in 35 Whelen would be ok. As would dozens of others. But I like the magazines, ease of cleaning (and drying depending on where you are in the Yukon), general accuracy, pretty quick handling of the pumps and think the 35W would be ok for everything - could even load some lead low velocity grouse/rabbit loads to keep in one magazine for fun.
If one kept his shots inside 300 mtrs, which could easily be done here, then the Mod 7 KS in 350 RM would make a great all around rifle/cartridge combo for the Yukon..........ammo availability aside. But this whole thread is a moot point when most of the people I know, have a rifle for every different animal that may be hunted here and every conceivable landscape. A very good case could be made for any cartridge from 30-06 and up, so it's all a matter of personal choice..........regardless of caliber/cartridge the all have pluses and negatives, bigger and faster means more recoil, bigger and slower means poorer trajectories, smaller doesn't make bison criteria...........Ah hell, never wanted to own only one rifle anyway, but if I had to it would still be the 300 or 340 Wby. The 300 Wby with 200 gn bullets is no slouch either..............
bigborefan
Regular
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, ON
You are under-estimating the 9.3 X 62 by several hundred ft-lbs at the muzzle - try 4000 to 4300 ft-lbs and you'll be closer to reality when using the best powders.
Not from books based on old and worn equipment, or traditional powders, but new rifles manufactured to easily handle 64,000 psi and the latest best powders, like RL-17.
Then, and then only, if you load the Ruger with a 270 TSX and the 9.3 with a 286 Partition, some surprises await the the uninformed.
Bob
www.bigbores.ca
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
This is an outstanding combination, to be honest.
strange suggestion Paul ...
i dont know where it come from but a mutual friend suggested a 270 win- 93.x62 for the Yukon and i love that combinaison.
i ve been fed for ever on the 7x64 and im starting to like the 270 win as well.
30-06 has been prohibited for us in France for ever so i needed one too and as Doug said we need mostly a gun for each kind of game we have here and we have a lot of different games ...
Amusing thread
to say the least ....
