Almost missed this - Thanks VanMan
Smokin deals on Grand Power 9mm's/.22's and range reports
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Almost missed this - Thanks VanMan
Got in some more testing on the range today. Definitely some improvement, but still not getting through the cheaper bulk .22 ammo without a few problems. Good news is that I've found the Blazer 525 bulk ammo to run perfectly in addition to the CCI minimag. The Winchester M22 looks promising too.
Tuning performed:
- stoned & polished hammer face and underside of slide (radius'd corner that resets the hammer back and the rib that runs on top of the hammer)
- stronger extractor spring (stretched out existing one ~ 1/4"), re-profile and stone extractor
- all tests were performed with stock mags (not tuned or adjusted)
Conditions
- outdoors 8 degrees Celsius
- fired 50 rounds rounds of each ammo type
I had two main types of failure to eject.
1. The spent casing came out part way, but got hung up on the next round.
- going to work a bit more on that extractor, see if I can reduce this type of FTE even more.
2. The particular round didn't have enough power to push the slide back far enough so the fired casing just slides back into the chamber
- don`t think I will be able to reduce this type of FTE much more. I think it`s a combination of a heavy slide and cheap bulk ammo that is inconsistent in power.
- the K22S model has a lighter slide, so they should not be as sensitive to this weaker ammo.
I also tested the mag with the shortened spring (cut off 4 coils). It worked fine on the Minimags, so I`m going to adjust 4 more and use them in the next round of testing. Leaving a mag fully loaded for 48 hours had no effect on the magazine spring.
A note on the Blazer 525 Bulk ammo, this stuff was so waxy, I couldn`t get it to cycle properly in any of my hands guns so I had been cleaning each round by hand to wipe off the wax (something to do while watching the news). I`ve got some 40gr RN Blazer in the 10x50 round bricks, will try that next time. Hopefully get similar results.
Tuning performed:
- stoned & polished hammer face and underside of slide (radius'd corner that resets the hammer back and the rib that runs on top of the hammer)
- stronger extractor spring (stretched out existing one ~ 1/4"), re-profile and stone extractor
- all tests were performed with stock mags (not tuned or adjusted)
Conditions
- outdoors 8 degrees Celsius
- fired 50 rounds rounds of each ammo type
I had two main types of failure to eject.
1. The spent casing came out part way, but got hung up on the next round.
- going to work a bit more on that extractor, see if I can reduce this type of FTE even more.
2. The particular round didn't have enough power to push the slide back far enough so the fired casing just slides back into the chamber
- don`t think I will be able to reduce this type of FTE much more. I think it`s a combination of a heavy slide and cheap bulk ammo that is inconsistent in power.
- the K22S model has a lighter slide, so they should not be as sensitive to this weaker ammo.
I also tested the mag with the shortened spring (cut off 4 coils). It worked fine on the Minimags, so I`m going to adjust 4 more and use them in the next round of testing. Leaving a mag fully loaded for 48 hours had no effect on the magazine spring.
A note on the Blazer 525 Bulk ammo, this stuff was so waxy, I couldn`t get it to cycle properly in any of my hands guns so I had been cleaning each round by hand to wipe off the wax (something to do while watching the news). I`ve got some 40gr RN Blazer in the 10x50 round bricks, will try that next time. Hopefully get similar results.
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^ Here's the thing.....I realize I'm a relative newcomer to the shooting sports but if ......"- stoned & polished hammer face and underside of slide (radius'd corner that resets the hammer back and the rib that runs on top of the hammer) - stronger extractor spring (stretched out existing one ~ 1/4"), re-profile and stone extractor" ..... needs to happen to make a product function properly shouldn't that have been done by the manufacturer before the item is sold????
I can't imagine anyone saying something like " Well, after doing X,Y and Z my new snowblower starts most of the time" or "just a little more tinkering and my new car should stop everytime I hit the brakes"
Isn't it reasonable to expect brand new products to work as designed? IE: for a semi automatic pistol to fire,eject the spent round and load a new round from it's magazine
I can't imagine anyone saying something like " Well, after doing X,Y and Z my new snowblower starts most of the time" or "just a little more tinkering and my new car should stop everytime I hit the brakes"
Isn't it reasonable to expect brand new products to work as designed? IE: for a semi automatic pistol to fire,eject the spent round and load a new round from it's magazine
Many semi .22 autos come with ammo recommendations such as "only use X (cci minimag for example) ammo.
Also they tend to get a bit better with some break in as well so I've come to expect to run a thousand or so mini mags (or what ever is reliable) through a new gun till I start trying the in reliable stuff again.
Grand Power does not recommend only specific ammo and intact says the gun was designed to work with a range of common ammo.... It's up to us to find that range!
In my case several types of ammo I had on hand were reliable out of the box which is a good start.
Also they tend to get a bit better with some break in as well so I've come to expect to run a thousand or so mini mags (or what ever is reliable) through a new gun till I start trying the in reliable stuff again.
Grand Power does not recommend only specific ammo and intact says the gun was designed to work with a range of common ammo.... It's up to us to find that range!
In my case several types of ammo I had on hand were reliable out of the box which is a good start.
For me, the "several types of ammo" were several individual rounds from a friend's box of CCI AR Tactical (after I tried every brand in my limited stash), and by some good fortune I was able to buy a case of it. If I never found that, I'd have bought some tannerite and blown the farking thing up.
Definitely most of the tuning I have done really just simulates a good break-in. My K22 X-Trim worked very well on Minimags without any tuning, which is why most gun stores will recommend using them to break in a new .22 handgun.
I think a key difference in being able to use cheaper ammo is going to be the heavier slide weight of the K22 X-Trim @270gr vs the K22S @210gr. The K22s should be able to accommodate a much wider range of ammo which your testing is showing.
It looks like the newer K-22 X-Trim models have addressed this as their slides look to have more cutouts to further lighten the slide.
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If my K22 X-Trim is still picky with ammo after tuning, I'll probably machine the slide myself to reduce weight. It wouldn't be so bad if we didn't have a .22LR ammo shortage due to all the hoarding going on in North America.
I had my K22S to the range today and it performed better than I was expecting given some of the posts here. I had one failure to fire out of 30 rounds each of Federal Champion bulk and Remington Golden Bullet (both fired on the second strike. Had 2 failure to fire out of 50 Rem Thunderbolt. Once again the rounds went off on second strike. The worst performer was CCI 36 gr Mini mags. I fired 100 rounds and had 8 FTF (all but one went on the second try)..2 failure to load and 3 failure to eject (2 left in the chamber and 1 stove pipe.
All and all I'm pretty pleased with my purchase.
All and all I'm pretty pleased with my purchase.
Surprised about the mini mags but it sounds like you had some success with the cheaper stuff!
I think I had two duds max in the hundreds of shots I fired the other day and they wouldn't go off with multiple strikes so I'm calling it bad ammo.
Seems many are getting light strikes for some reason?
I think I had two duds max in the hundreds of shots I fired the other day and they wouldn't go off with multiple strikes so I'm calling it bad ammo.
Seems many are getting light strikes for some reason?
I'm curious about that too. Just thinking aloud, but maybe the combo of a light slide and corresponding light recoil spring causes issues with excessive force from very HV ammo?
The heavier slide on the X-Trim seems happy with 1400fps ammo. Maybe if I only removed 30 grams it might like 1200-1400fps ammo?
I only have the 40gr Minimags to test with, but I have noticed that so far I`ve had the best performance with 40gr RN bullets rated at 1235-1255 fps. Not having great results with the lower weight 36-38gr high velocity ammo.
One cause of light strikes I`ve noticed is the slide not returning fully to battery after chambering a round, especially if it`s the first round off of a mag and I have used the "auto-forward" method of firmly slapping the mag in to release the slide. I`ve checked and some times I`ve had to press the slide fully into battery with my thumb. I`m thinking if I had not, the first strike would have been a failure to fire - but would have seated the slide into battery. The next strike would then fire off the round correctly. If I sling shot the slide to load the first round in a mag, this does not occur as often, unless I`m using ammo that`s very waxy or dirty like the Remington Bucket O`Bullets. I think switching to the heavier spring would probably help reduce this a lot, but that will also increase the sensitivity to ammo.
On the positive side, I do like the ability to give an extra strike in double action. On some of the cheap bulk ammo like the Winchester Wildcats, I get a lot failures to fire in some of my semi-autos so you have to eject the round and reload it into a mag if you want to try giving it another try.
One cause of light strikes I`ve noticed is the slide not returning fully to battery after chambering a round, especially if it`s the first round off of a mag and I have used the "auto-forward" method of firmly slapping the mag in to release the slide. I`ve checked and some times I`ve had to press the slide fully into battery with my thumb. I`m thinking if I had not, the first strike would have been a failure to fire - but would have seated the slide into battery. The next strike would then fire off the round correctly. If I sling shot the slide to load the first round in a mag, this does not occur as often, unless I`m using ammo that`s very waxy or dirty like the Remington Bucket O`Bullets. I think switching to the heavier spring would probably help reduce this a lot, but that will also increase the sensitivity to ammo.
On the positive side, I do like the ability to give an extra strike in double action. On some of the cheap bulk ammo like the Winchester Wildcats, I get a lot failures to fire in some of my semi-autos so you have to eject the round and reload it into a mag if you want to try giving it another try.
I'm curious about that too. Just thinking aloud, but maybe the combo of a light slide and corresponding light recoil spring causes issues with excessive force from very HV ammo?
The heavier slide on the X-Trim seems happy with 1400fps ammo. Maybe if I only removed 30 grams it might like 1200-1400fps ammo?
^^^
Interesting.....I noticed that the majority of my failure to fire's (probably 50% or more) were the first round off of a fresh mag.
I had the lighter of the springs in today (it's what came in the gun so I figured it was the default choice)
Interesting.....I noticed that the majority of my failure to fire's (probably 50% or more) were the first round off of a fresh mag.
I had the lighter of the springs in today (it's what came in the gun so I figured it was the default choice)
I am going to the range tomorrow to try some mags on the heavier spring. I also noticed a fair amount of friction with the mag follower on all three of my mags. To remedy this I have slightly dremeled down the small tab on the mag follower which was hanging up near the top of the mag and I have shaved 1mm off the spring post on the base plate to allow for easier loading of the tenth round. One mag I have also trimmed three coils off of the mag spring as Vanman suggested.
Will report back tomorrow with results.
Will report back tomorrow with results.
^^^
Interesting.....I noticed that the majority of my failure to fire's (probably 50% or more) were the first round off of a fresh mag.
I had the lighter of the springs in today (it's what came in the gun so I figured it was the default choice)
I've had similar experiences. Right now I'm using the heavier spring and partially loaded mags and it's running a lot better.
Thanks for this. I'll be modifying some of my mags for some comparison shooting next Wed.
Second Range Report:
I only had time to squeeze off 120 rds today but here are the results:
The first and third mag had 3 and 2 FTFeeds (CCI and Fed Match). The second and all the rest of the mags were perfect no failures of any kind. The temp was about 6c and the Win X ran 4 perfect mags.
All shots were made with the bigger spring installed and all mags have been slightly modified to reduce friction with the follower. My best 10 shot group was 2" at 25' from a bench.
The findings albeit a small test group points to temperature imho
I only had time to squeeze off 120 rds today but here are the results:
The first and third mag had 3 and 2 FTFeeds (CCI and Fed Match). The second and all the rest of the mags were perfect no failures of any kind. The temp was about 6c and the Win X ran 4 perfect mags.
All shots were made with the bigger spring installed and all mags have been slightly modified to reduce friction with the follower. My best 10 shot group was 2" at 25' from a bench.
The findings albeit a small test group points to temperature imho
Correct
I've also had FTFs with the first round off the mag on my K22s. So much that I stopped trying to shoot and figured I'd just shoot my Sigs for the rest of the day.
Now that I know, I'll keep feeding it. Was using Mini-mags as well...
