I think I made that pretty clear in my previous post.
Minimal expansion does not always = poor bullet performance either
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I Screwed Up, and I Knew Better !!!
- Thread starter c-fbmi
- Start date
I think I made that pretty clear in my previous post.
Minimal expansion does not always = poor bullet performance either
Yes, but the typical response "poo-poo's" the idea that it could be poor bullet performance. If I buy a bullet that is designed for caliber appropriate big game hunting (i.e. not a 450gr .458" TSX on a Dik-Dik) , and is designed to expand, then I expect it to expand when it hits game at a velocity that the manufacturer claims is within the envelope of performance.
I'd expect the same. Poor quality control undoubtedly accounts for a percentage of failed expansions but I suspect a much smaller fraction than most would like to believe. For the tens of thousands that expand reliably...undoubtedly there are a handful that don't due to some problem in the manufacturing process but that doesn't change the fact that if an animal doesn't die from the shot....the likely culprit is poor shot placement.... If the bullet doesn't expand the likely causes are too low of impact velocity(several possible causes here)....then a tumbling bullet(again several possible causes)...and finally manufacturing default. Going back to the OP...it's highly unlikely the screw up was buying a monometal....
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I do believe I implied the shot could have been better placed, but my 14 year old son got enamored with the antlers and made a poor shot. I don't have the bullet to check expansion, however I most certainly did witness the deers reaction and saw the minimal tissue disruption after we recovered the animal. Hitting a solid meat mass such as the neck muscle of a WT I would have expected a much larger exit hole and much greater tissue disruption than what was present, had the bullet expanded to any degree.
I made a similar shot a few years back on a similar whitetail but at 300 or so mtrs and with a 300 Wby using 200 gn Nos Parts.........sacked the deer, it got up but only moved about 40 yds and was standing with it's head drooped and unable to run or hold it's head up at all. Y'all can preach about poor shot placement, and I have to agree but that really wasn't the point of the post, the lack of damage from the poorly placed shot was what struck me as odd, not that he flubbed the shot. We who actually go out in the bush and hunt and are honest, flub shots from time to time and admit it, no news there. My thinking was, what if that bullet had hit between the ribs just back of the shoulder (which many say is the perfect shot) instead of the solid mass of a whitetails neck in rut.........how much damage would it really have done given little to no resistance, considering the minimal damage given the relatively high resistance of solid neck muscle of a rutting WT buck.
One thing I can say for sure, were he using the 230 Douglas we would have picked up the head and admired it then went over and gutted and loaded the body...........
I made a similar shot a few years back on a similar whitetail but at 300 or so mtrs and with a 300 Wby using 200 gn Nos Parts.........sacked the deer, it got up but only moved about 40 yds and was standing with it's head drooped and unable to run or hold it's head up at all. Y'all can preach about poor shot placement, and I have to agree but that really wasn't the point of the post, the lack of damage from the poorly placed shot was what struck me as odd, not that he flubbed the shot. We who actually go out in the bush and hunt and are honest, flub shots from time to time and admit it, no news there. My thinking was, what if that bullet had hit between the ribs just back of the shoulder (which many say is the perfect shot) instead of the solid mass of a whitetails neck in rut.........how much damage would it really have done given little to no resistance, considering the minimal damage given the relatively high resistance of solid neck muscle of a rutting WT buck.
One thing I can say for sure, were he using the 230 Douglas we would have picked up the head and admired it then went over and gutted and loaded the body...........
Personally not a fan of shots on the shoulder and forward or the liver and backward... the boiler room is the most reliable option with the largest margin for error and the least likelyhood of problems... even a poorly expanded bullet through the lungs will result in a good blood trail and a dead critter...
Glad you found that buck, Douglas. Nothing feels worse than a wounding loss...
Glad you found that buck, Douglas. Nothing feels worse than a wounding loss...
Here's some photos of his deer anyway......................and a happy hunter regardless that he didn't make a perfect shot................
No one here is advocating neck shooting as a properly placed shot, but the reality is that is where his shot went.............I however am a dedicated front shoulder shooter and it works flawlessly, when all goes as planned..........which this shot didn't. I wasn't looking for a lecture on correct bullet placement, which I believe I am well aware of, I was just distraught at the significant lack of damage from the TTSX at close range with a solid muscle hit............it should have done more damage in my opinion.
No one here is advocating neck shooting as a properly placed shot, but the reality is that is where his shot went.............I however am a dedicated front shoulder shooter and it works flawlessly, when all goes as planned..........which this shot didn't. I wasn't looking for a lecture on correct bullet placement, which I believe I am well aware of, I was just distraught at the significant lack of damage from the TTSX at close range with a solid muscle hit............it should have done more damage in my opinion.
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Why would anyone want to shoot a deer through the front shoulders? Trophy hunters I guess who just want to kill it for the horns and don't care about the meat. Best Of The West.
Nice deer congrats. I think the neck shot was a better shot than going through the front shoulder.
Nice deer congrats. I think the neck shot was a better shot than going through the front shoulder.
Crazy looking buck!! 
I've seen lots of small Barnes exit wounds, which can lead people to believe there was no expansion. Inside the body cavity we find liquified organs though. It's what's inside that counts.
Have to see a pic of the neck with the skin off to speculate on expansion. Right now all we know is that no vitals in the neck were hit.
I've seen way too many deer shot with Barnes bullets and 243 260 and 7-08 to believe it's a bad combo.
I've seen lots of small Barnes exit wounds, which can lead people to believe there was no expansion. Inside the body cavity we find liquified organs though. It's what's inside that counts.
Have to see a pic of the neck with the skin off to speculate on expansion. Right now all we know is that no vitals in the neck were hit.
I've seen way too many deer shot with Barnes bullets and 243 260 and 7-08 to believe it's a bad combo.
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Can't speak for your particular type of bullet but I shot a buck in 2009 at DeerDr's place and made the shot you just "supposed" about, between the ribs without hitting a bone and exiting on the far side in the same manner. I was using a 348 Winchester with factory 200 grain silvertips. Shot was 338 metres. Exit hole was the size around of the end of my thumb. Deer ran about 20 yards and went down. By the time I got over to it, it had gotten back up and walked about 75 yards before expiring. I guess it heard me coming? I assumed after watching it for a few seconds after dropping it had expired. WRONG! Anyways we recovered it, thankfully as the only spot of blood that even left it's body was a tiny smear on a blade of grass where it fell first. It was an awful time finding it in 4' long grass/weeds without any kind of trail. I don't know what I was expecting to find but surely not an exit hole after all the B.S I was told over an over about how useless my 348 was beyond 100 yards? When Doc and I gutted the deer there sure was a pile of blood and assorted unrecognizable internal parts flowed out onto the ground. There may not have been a huge exit hole but there was a lot of internal damage.
BTW....nice deer your young lad took, congratulations.
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bearklr...........you'll never hear me b!tch about lost meat, I want it dead right where it stood.........there would have been a helluva lot more lost meat if we hadn't been able to recover it.............
GH.........I didn't take photos of the dissection but I'm telling you there was minimal tissue damage..........to the point that this deer quite likely could have survived, except for the 160 gn AB through the ribs at 3500 fps...........
The good news is there was virtually no damage to the cape........6.5 mm hole in and 6.5, maybe 7 mm hole out. Y'all can extol the virtues of TTSX bullets at moderate velocity all you want, they will never be used in my medium capacity cartridges again. I learned my lesson and it's back to Parts and Accubonds for this cowboy..............Oh ya, and some more range time for the boy.............maybe with some critter silhouette targets..............gotta teach him to concentrate on the low shoulder shot, blowing the knuckle to bits and blasting it into the cavity as secondary deadly projectiles........then we will work on the quartering shots as well.
GH.........I didn't take photos of the dissection but I'm telling you there was minimal tissue damage..........to the point that this deer quite likely could have survived, except for the 160 gn AB through the ribs at 3500 fps...........
The good news is there was virtually no damage to the cape........6.5 mm hole in and 6.5, maybe 7 mm hole out. Y'all can extol the virtues of TTSX bullets at moderate velocity all you want, they will never be used in my medium capacity cartridges again. I learned my lesson and it's back to Parts and Accubonds for this cowboy..............Oh ya, and some more range time for the boy.............maybe with some critter silhouette targets..............gotta teach him to concentrate on the low shoulder shot, blowing the knuckle to bits and blasting it into the cavity as secondary deadly projectiles........then we will work on the quartering shots as well.
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