Yea BUM, I'm still kicking my own a$$ and don't know what I was thinking when I made him up those loads...........and I had 100 and 120 gn BTs for it as well as some other way more suitable bullets............maybe I'm just getting old and senile...........
I Screwed Up, and I Knew Better !!!
- Thread starter c-fbmi
- Start date
Yea BUM, I'm still kicking my own a$$ and don't know what I was thinking when I made him up those loads...........and I had 100 and 120 gn BTs for it as well as some other way more suitable bullets............maybe I'm just getting old and senile...........
I appreciate the kudos for sticking with it, the credit also goes to my cousin and his 19 year old son, both of whom worked harder than I did and pushed bush and tracked him until he made a mistake and I was able to complete the job. We were very lucky in where this all took place as it wasn't a big area and he really had no where to go outside the big willow bottom and a 50 or so acre stand of poplar..........from there it was miles to the next cover so he just ducked and backtracked us for hours, not willing to risk the run to the next cover. We finally caught him circling out the south end of the willows with another buck and trying to dart back to the poplars at the north end.........OOPS.
I dont understand why your being so hard on yourself.
S--t happens sometimes, it coulda been worse, it coulda been a big ole bear you downloaded the rounds for ...
Now that would be something to be worried about.
Now, if the brain farts become closer and closer together, then maybe I can see being worried.
Chalk it up as a learning curve...
Rob
S--t happens sometimes, it coulda been worse, it coulda been a big ole bear you downloaded the rounds for ...
Now that would be something to be worried about.
Now, if the brain farts become closer and closer together, then maybe I can see being worried.
Chalk it up as a learning curve...
Rob
I like these real stories - real performance/nonperformance in real life situations. Too often we hear stories of the one that got away and the supposed reason for it - the bullets that bounced off brush or coyote hide or space. I know the feeling of looking for someones deer - a sick feeling - anger mixes in - why this or why that - but everyone should think about those things just before the trigger pull - is this shot a sure thing? Just as often, the gun had more than enough power to kill, but something else is wrong - like a flinch or excitement or like in the young lads case - a bullet that worked like an arrow. A .223 with a hollow point might have worked better - I donno.
I like the performance of small bullets going really fast. I prefer if the bullet disintegrates - gives up all of it's energy immediately. I have not used this sort of thing on anything larger than black bear and large white tail, but with them, I do have enough experience to say that I have no reason to change. Yes, a bigger lead with more energy will flatten an animal quicker - but I am a meat hunter - hunting in areas that I am at home in - if it takes a few minutes to find the animal, that's part of the hunt - I don't lose meat.
A couple of interesting things - if I put a 45 - 55 grain bullet into the ribs of a deer just behind the shoulder, the angle of the shot matters little. It will break three ribs - and those ribs go on through - like I think C-FBMI mentioned - shredding the lungs and often cleaning the pipes off the heart. Nothing is left of the bullet - it explodes and gives up all of it's energy - and it's job is done - but the ribs, as new projectiles, do all the rest of the work. The interesting thing is that as far as I can tell, the ribs do not continue in the direction that the bullets went, but they seem to be sent straight in - like a small grenade went off at the surface of the deer.
The other interesting thing is this - varmint bullets work fine - hollow point or V-max do the same job. I used a 35 grain V-max loaded to 4200 fps in a 22.250 and it performed just the same - three ribs and mush.
Now I am going to make my own supposition here - that if I loaded a heavy bullet - which will go slower, I will not get the grenade effect that I want - and the bullet will hold together and break one rib and carry on in roughly in the direction that it hit the deer - maybe angling back through the guts and loose the rest of it's energy there. This is what I would consider a failure. Yes - if I use a turbo-magnum, it will carry on through the guts and out through the back roasts and leave a blood stain on local real estate, but really, if the deer is too heavy, there are other ways of lightening it - or I can go home and get a tractor.
Thanks for telling a real life story - it ended well - it is too bad that we have to edit our stories for the PC crowd - we might sometimes learn more from discussing failure than success. Those who have never failed - please don't click "reply."
I like the performance of small bullets going really fast. I prefer if the bullet disintegrates - gives up all of it's energy immediately. I have not used this sort of thing on anything larger than black bear and large white tail, but with them, I do have enough experience to say that I have no reason to change. Yes, a bigger lead with more energy will flatten an animal quicker - but I am a meat hunter - hunting in areas that I am at home in - if it takes a few minutes to find the animal, that's part of the hunt - I don't lose meat.
A couple of interesting things - if I put a 45 - 55 grain bullet into the ribs of a deer just behind the shoulder, the angle of the shot matters little. It will break three ribs - and those ribs go on through - like I think C-FBMI mentioned - shredding the lungs and often cleaning the pipes off the heart. Nothing is left of the bullet - it explodes and gives up all of it's energy - and it's job is done - but the ribs, as new projectiles, do all the rest of the work. The interesting thing is that as far as I can tell, the ribs do not continue in the direction that the bullets went, but they seem to be sent straight in - like a small grenade went off at the surface of the deer.
The other interesting thing is this - varmint bullets work fine - hollow point or V-max do the same job. I used a 35 grain V-max loaded to 4200 fps in a 22.250 and it performed just the same - three ribs and mush.
Now I am going to make my own supposition here - that if I loaded a heavy bullet - which will go slower, I will not get the grenade effect that I want - and the bullet will hold together and break one rib and carry on in roughly in the direction that it hit the deer - maybe angling back through the guts and loose the rest of it's energy there. This is what I would consider a failure. Yes - if I use a turbo-magnum, it will carry on through the guts and out through the back roasts and leave a blood stain on local real estate, but really, if the deer is too heavy, there are other ways of lightening it - or I can go home and get a tractor.
Thanks for telling a real life story - it ended well - it is too bad that we have to edit our stories for the PC crowd - we might sometimes learn more from discussing failure than success. Those who have never failed - please don't click "reply."
Your bullet choice would have been perfect if it was put in the right spot
GH...........an FMJ would have worked in the "right place", that doesn't make it the right or best bullet choice...............JEEEEZZZEEEE
Anc3593......I'm sorry, but I can see no correlation between my issues with the TTSX and your story of using 223 and 22-250 on deer and bear...........which I happen to disagree with vehemently. But thank you for the support, however skewed.
Anc3593......I'm sorry, but I can see no correlation between my issues with the TTSX and your story of using 223 and 22-250 on deer and bear...........which I happen to disagree with vehemently. But thank you for the support, however skewed.
Nahhh, GH simply feels that his word is the last word on the subject.
Once he embraces a concept or product, he turns deaf to all other suggestions or statements that may not agree with his viewpoint.
Regards, Dave.
Nahhh, GH simply feels that his word is the last word on the subject.
Once he embraces a concept or product, he turns deaf to all other suggestions or statements that may not agree with his viewpoint.
Regards, Dave.
I think with this it's hard to argue against that if the bullet went through the lungs or heart the deer would have died.
It's also unfair to condemn a bullet for a bad shot.
It's equally unfair to use a bullet outside of it's known parameters and expect it to do something it can't.
If the bullet went through the lungs, didn't expand and it had to be chased for hours, I would agree it was a bullet failure.
Couldn't help it. This is one of the most absurd posts I have seen in a while. Please, anyone who is looking for advice about appropriate hunting bullets/cartridges, ignore this post.
Agree 100% with that!
Also a good lesson for the young lad (and many around here). I am sure he learned a great deal over this.
And great to see the efforts and determination by all involved tracking this wounded animal. Good Job! Been there...done that.
I think with this it's hard to argue against that if the bullet went through the lungs or heart the deer would have died.
It's also unfair to condemn a bullet for a bad shot.
It's equally unfair to use a bullet outside of it's known parameters and expect it to do something it can't.
If the bullet went through the lungs, didn't expand and it had to be chased for hours, I would agree it was a bullet failure.
Well, GH, I have 2 TTSX bullets [a 168 gr 30 cal,, and a 250 gr 338 cal.] that both required follow up after the animal was shot in the lungs.
The 30 cal [from a 30-06] shows zero expansion, only the tip is missing. the 338 shows only the slightest expansion.
Do not misinterpret my stand on this: I have and use the TTSX, but I no longer load them in anything but faster-stepping chamberings.
There are so many excellent choices out there that work well at slower speeds, that it is fool's paradise to load a bullet that is designed to work well, but needs a bit more velocity to perform reliably.
I am reasonably certain that the shot taken by the boy would have had different results if the bullet had been the 130 AB, or the 125 Partition. [or even a Ballistic Tip or SST]
Nevertheless, I am not fond of neck or head shots, and have seen some unsatisfactory results from them. I will concede that a better placement would have been the heart-lung area.
Regards, Dave.
If you recover an unexpanded mono-metal bullet in an animal something other than bullet failure to expand happened. Think about it, nothing should zip through an animal easier than an unexpanded mono metal. If it stayed inside either your handload had issues and you weren't getting the velocity you think, you were wayyyyyyyyyy to far away or the bullet tumbled. It's funny that these unexpanded mono metals that remain in an animal are virtually always from handloads....................it's funny we rarely look at human error as a cause.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Certainly something that rarely gets blamed is the human error, and a mono metal bullet not exiting would be lead me to believe that my loading was very suspect !
Cat
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
I've recovered a few that didn't exit, but they expanded just fine. We're still awaiting pics of an unexpanded one that remained in the animal.
I've actually seen a couple pictures of ones that didn't expand nor did they exit. And I was along on one hunt where we pulled one out that didn't. Absolutely it happens....it's just why it happens that is often suspect. That said, it happens with bonded bullets too.
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