Anyone handloading for the M14?

I've reloaded a lot of combinations with my 2007 m305, and over time, managed to get consistent 1.5 inch groups @ 100y using cheap components. It can be done, and won't wreck your gas system either. I have loaded Varget, it cycled well and got decent accuracy, but I didn't want to load more than 20 rounds because it's a slower burning propellant.

A lot of these opinions have merit, the PRVI brass and federal primers work well with Hornady 150g bullets. I tend to fire a lot of the federal blue box 150g factory ammo, because that stuff is cheap and accurate, leaving me with pounds of brass. I try to reload this only 3 times, because my headspacing is fairly loose.

I think the most important thing here is don't use winchester LR primers, and make sure whatever you use is below flush. Your COALength has to be kept in check, and keep it to the 4895's, 3031, 4064, and BALL-C2 powders. It's good practice to full length resize your brass, but you CAN neck size for the m305's, at least with mine. I don't think you should do it though, I did haha.

My best accuracy was with RL15, hornady 150g btsp, federal primers, and DA 1960's brass. This is an oddball combo because DA brass is hard to get now and RL ranks at #84 on the Lyman 49th edition reloading handbook, which makes it slower than Varget - so this load may do damage, even with 150g bullets.

Just for your reference, I'll list the relative burn rates starting with IMR 3031 according to this book:

#68 IMR-3031
#69 ACCURATE 2230
#70 H335 (all loads I tried with this powder sucked in my rifle)
#71 Ramshot TAC
#72 H4895
#73 IMR4895
#74 ACCURATE 2460
#75 H BALL-C2
#76 ACCURATE 2495
#77 WIN748
#78 VV N135
#79 IMR 4064
#80 H-VARGET
#81 ACCURATE 2520
#82 VV N540
#83 VV N140
#84 Alliant RL15
#85 IMR-4320
#86 H380

Page 219 of this book says that: "Many shooters loading for the m1a/m14 rifles find best results with IMR-4895 or IMR-4064. Shooters reloading military cases will need to remove the primer crimp in order to reprime cartridge cases. Shooters should also stay one to two grains below the listed maximum charges due to the smaller volume of GI brass."

I highly recommend this book. The LEE reloading manual is a bit painful to read, and more like an old man's rambling journal, mixed with potshots at other reloading vendors. There is still good information in it, I've read about 4 reloading manuals front to back and found this Lyman one to be my favourite. I do believe the LEE manual just farms reloading data from the manufacturers and reprints it, while the Lyman company does actual testing, but I'm not sure.
 
Round to round consistency matters when preparing quality handloads. Case preparation is a very important step in the process. In addition to obvious things like using the same make of brass, segregation by firing cycles and trimming to uniform length, it pays off to buy brass in large lots and to sort it by weight after initial preparation. Initial preparation includes neck sizing, flash hole deburring, primer pocket uniforming, trimming, and case mouth chamfering and deburring. I normally sort a large lot of brass into 4 weight categories before reloading as there is a surprising degree of weight variation among cases of the same make.

Today's bullets are remarkably consistent by weight. I once bought a large lot of 172gr match bullets wnich were salvaged from military .30-06 match ammo. These were accurate bullets, but I found enough weight variation in them to make me sort them into 3 weight groupings.

^ This is a good post. Accuracy does stay consistent when you do this. Sorry for the double post.
 
Sigh just checked the reloader room, only like a 1/8th of a 1lb jug of 4895 imr left, 2 lbs of 4064 imr and 3lbs of varget left, rest is either slower yet or fast for straitwall 45-70 gov, (4198)ect
 
Sigh just checked the reloader room, only like a 1/8th of a 1lb jug of 4895 imr left, 2 lbs of 4064 imr and 3lbs of varget left, rest is either slower yet or fast for straitwall 45-70 gov, (4198)ect

Load up some 4064, 2lbs is a lot. It's not like you can't use your Varget, it's just not smart for others to recommend you do this. I spoke to a gunsmith about firing 180g bullets from an m305 and he said it's a fact that's massively blown out of proportion by the internet, and you 'might' see some damage to the op rod by the time your barrel is shot out. You have to remember a lot of these guys regurgitate something they've read from a book written in the 60's and massively overreact when you mention something to the contrary. There's a guy that frequents the gun store I go to, and he has shot 8000 rounds of 180g federal .308win, the gunsmith checked the op rod and it is no different than one that shot only military 7.62x51nato

I'm sure someone will come along shortly to correct me, providing irrefutable evidence like an op rod that broke in half after 2 shots with 170 grain bullets. Most likely it will come in the form of some ancient book with brief reference to the topic.

A lot of the guys here with knowledge of the m1a platform simply don't post much anymore, and I'm starting to understand why.

I believe the closest you can get to factory 7.62x51 nato uses 4064 and a 147g FMJ anyways
 
Last edited:
Yea perhaps I will use the 4064 I can save the varget for my other 308's anyways it will find use In those.

The 4064 I have is from a while back lol the ruger m77 seemed to like varget better.
 
A lot of these opinions have merit, the PRVI brass and federal primers work well with Hornady 150g bullets. I tend to fire a lot of the federal blue box 150g factory ammo, because that stuff is cheap and accurate, leaving me with pounds of brass. I try to reload this only 3 times, because my headspacing is fairly loose.

I think the most important thing here is don't use winchester LR primers, and make sure whatever you use is below flush.

What's the problem with Win primers in the M14? Often Win and CCI are rated hardest to ignite which is a good thing for floating firing pin semis.
Almost everything I've read says Federal is most sensitive and is risky in the M14, which is opposite to what you are recommending.
 
31 y.o. IS YOUNG to an old coot like me

I'm 31 yo and have been hand-loading since i was 18.
Just because i asked questions about a platform i was not well versed in hand-loading for do not assume I am inexperienced as a shooter/hunter or hand-loader in other aspects.
I've been loading rounds for Bolts and leavers for over a decade and i employ a ladder method to good results and have done so for quite a few years.
I mentioned in my very first post i didn't expect anyone else's loads to work in my gun i just wanted a recommended PSI level starting point because i was concerned about the levels these guns can take.
I guess i could have just been more stubborn and pretended i knew everything and just started loading em up instead of inquiring first lol.

I'm glad i did ask as their is some real niche things about the platform that i didn't know or perhaps just didn't think of in the right context.
Likely nothing would have went wrong but i probably would have been abusing the gas system with loads of varget in starting to medium ranges for starters and not realized it until things started to mess up on me.

Yes your right Clip/magazine can be confusing if you don't use the same lingo/slang as i do . Its just what we have always called them where i'm from and i regularly forget to make the proper distinction to others.

And don't take this as me being snapping back as i'm not , I'm just correcting your assumption that i'm a total noob here which i am not perhaps with the M14 i am somewhat which is why i take my spoonfuls of advice from this forum how ever bitter or entitled some may come off and i just smile and be thankful i got any at all.

i only have 300x of the 150's i bought so Ill see if i can get something going off those.

But thanks for the advice on bullets Ill look for some reasonably priced batches in the future.

Im still on the hunt for decent brass anyways and at this rate its going to be a while till i find anything it seems.

Thanks alot for your reply's guys



===========================
Also


Yea thats what i figured with the OAL of the MAGAZINE/CLIP OAL being the limiting factor.
If i remember I probably have IMR 4895 as i keep thinking purple can.
I havent used the stuff nore 4065 in years and years since varget became the go too powder for my 243 and 308's , I just found it far more consistent than either of those and more consistent than 4350 (in the 243) and i could often use less grains of powder to the same effect.
But i have no objections to staying in Milspec with 4895 instead just means more powder for my other guns.

as for same but it seems with what I've read here and other places the charges are going to be a fair bit below that.


First time called me "the old guy" it bothered me, but you get used to it. Interesting read.The boys on the M14 forum beat the reloading thing to death on a regular basis, so you might pick up a trick or two there.:cheers:
 
What's the problem with Win primers in the M14? Often Win and CCI are rated hardest to ignite which is a good thing for floating firing pin semis.
Almost everything I've read says Federal is most sensitive and is risky in the M14, which is opposite to what you are recommending.

As of late there has been a rash of Win primers that burn through and could potentially damage the bolt face. I believe that only certain lot numbers are affect by this. IIRC somewhere on M14Forum there is a thread which lists faulty batch/lot numbers

bad lot in 2009.LOT #DHL766G
DGL739G

Also possibly XML596G and XML597G, and XLL570G.
 
Last edited:
What's the problem with Win primers in the M14? Often Win and CCI are rated hardest to ignite which is a good thing for floating firing pin semis.
Almost everything I've read says Federal is most sensitive and is risky in the M14, which is opposite to what you are recommending.

sure

lol
 
People have been on the quest for 7.62/.308 accuracy in gas operated rifles for a long time and the code was broken many moons ago. I have a booklet on loading .30 cal match ammo written by Roy F Dunlap back in 1967. Dunlap was a noted gunsmith and shooter of the time. His recommendations for the 168gr bullet in the 7.62 were 39/40gr IMR3031, 42gr IMR4895 or 43gr IMR4064. This was based on iterations of these powders that were current 47 yrs ago. The US Army confirmed this with their match grade loads for the 7.62 with IMR3031 and IMR4895. Nowadays I'd go with what Zediker has to say about it and pretty much ignore all of the other internet commentary. No drama, no fuss; these things work.

Different propellants do make a bit of difference, but probably less than what people like to believe. The key thing with the M14/M1 is functionality and generating the right gas pressure pulse to cycle the action properly. There really isn't much need to look to far beyond IMR3031, IMR4064, IMR4895 and H4895 for this. As a bonus these will all yield excellent accuracy.

Some time ago I thought I'd wring out various propellants with 168gr match bullets in a heavy barrel .308 bolt gun just to get an idea of their relative accuracy. Here are the averages of quite a few groups derived from this testing. I used LC 172gr Match ammo and Federal Gold Medal Match Ammo as a baseline;

168gr Federal Gold medal match/168gr Sierra - .92in
LC 173gr match - 1.33 in

168gr Sierra Match
43gr WC755 commercial grade ball - .61in (burn rate near H380 not suitable for semi-auto)
41gr IMR4895 - .62in
44.5gr W748 - .63in
42gr IMR4064 - .67in

168gr Hornady Match
38gr IMR3031 - .67in
39gr IMR3031 - .66in
40gr IMR3031 - .68in
44gr Varget - .68in

168gr Nosler J4
38gr IMR3031 - .67in
39gr IMR3031 - .68in
40gr H4895 - .85in
43gr WC755 - .71in

Accuracy results appeared fairly equal overall, so why not pick the best one with the correct burn rate and use it? These results were pretty consistent when loads were fired in an M14 and 7.62 Garands (obviously bigger groups, but still good).

Primer cup hardness is always an interesting topic and the only one that matches MILSPEC hardness in the CCI No34. CCI specifically states this in their specifications. That said, I've used both WLR, Rem 91/2 primers in Garand reloads with good results, subject to the caveat that primers were always seated below flush in properly prepared primer pockets. I would like to see an objective analysis/measurement of the hardness of the WLR, Rem, CCI LR, and Federal primer cups relative to the CCI No34. There is a lot of anecdotal commentary about this, but it would be good to see a scientific comparison. We do know for sure that the No34 cup is harder than both the CCI LR and magnum primers because CCI says so.

Both Hornady and Federal produce factory ammo which is advertised and labelled as M1 Garand specific. Presumably this means compliance with both propellant and primer specifications. It would be interesting to learn just what primer Federal uses in their Garand loads. They make primers, but don't market any as being MILSPEC. Hornady does not, but they get them from somewhere.

In addition to seating primers below flush, it is also worth checking the firing pin protrusion in an M1/M14 type. There are max/min dimensions for this. The whole issue of "harder cup" primers in M1 Garand and M14 ammo is based on resistance to "dimpling" by the metal of the cup when/if impacted by the tip of the floating firing pin as the round is chambered and followed home by the bolt. A person can check on the degree of "dimpling" in a loaded round by chambering it from the magazine at the range and then extracting and examining it before re-chambering and firing. The Kuhnhausen Shop manual on the M1/M14 has a very good discussion of this as well as other primer related issues and safety concerns.
 
Well Purple - I took all that pretty much to heart and haven't looked back; to me the M14/M1A is a rifleman's rifle. Pick it up, and SHOOT it. Go to the range with it, go hunting with it, you can even go to war with it I suppose. But if you want to fiddle and futz at the reloading bench these guns are probably not for you.

I am fairly new to these guns and wish I'd run into them 20 years ago. I am loading standard federal and CCI primers in mine and haven't had an issue. Mind you, I watch my case prep like a hawk. Try as I might, I cannot lay hands on mil brass or special primers - so I use what I have. I did have a case head separate once but the gun just gobbed out the two pieces and reloaded the next one without missing a beat. I suppose I got lucky with that...
 
Well
Just ordered 300 Peices of PRVI 308 WIN brass from mysticprecision.com 60$ for 100 peices so not to bad for decent brass , ive heard it compaired to lapua brass for quality and firmness.

So that pretty much fills all the needed components so now i wait.

I may try and find a hornady headspace gauge here if i can i hear they are better then the one i use.
-------------------------------------

pss.

Shipping was 15$ usually shipping like this is a flat rate unless you order like tons and tons of weight in items.

He has a rate of 55$ per 100 if you buy over 500 pieces of brass also, but i really didn't need 500 atm so if you buy 500 you basically gain back your shipping fee and a little bit. .

They prefer EMT.
Everything went smooth and they were quick to reply to e-mails.
 
Last edited:
Well
Just ordered 300 Peices of PRVI 308 WIN brass from mysticprecision.com 60$ for 100 peices so not to bad for decent brass , ive heard it compaired to lapua brass for quality and firmness.

So that pretty much fills all the needed components so now i wait.

I may try and find a hornady headspace gauge here if i can i hear they are better then the one i use.

Hi leonard,
Is that $60.00 shipped or is shipping extra? (Tried the web site but no prices listed) Sounds like I need to look into this as good brass is tough to find right now.
Anyone else here have experience with PRVI brass?
Rodney
 
No yet but I just ordered 200 rounds 303 Brit and have some 6.5 X 55 I'm prepping. Having uniformed some primer pockets and deburing flash holes it seems relatively tough but I just finished same on some Federal and it cuts like cheese.
 
Prvi brass is all I use for my .303 reloads. Excellent stuff. Haven't used the .308 brass but I would assume same quality.
 
Its funny i've had about 25x 303 rounds sitting loaded waiting to be tested for like 2 years in one of my ammo boxes.

I've Been trying to get the dang scope on that gun to line up properly, the rail they make for it sucks bigtime but it seems stable enough now.
trying to shimm the scope now so it points down a few inches more than it currently does as it ran out of adjustment completely.

I may end up just putting that gun back to ironsites even with my eye's not being so good anymore (developed a stigma).

Thats a entirely different topic though and ill derail no further :p.
 
Back
Top Bottom