Holy ####, there's info here now?
Catastrophic failure in my SA15.7 - A happy ending from Colt Canada
- Thread starter Saryet
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Holy ####, there's info here now?
Runningfool
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I didn't say good info.
Thank goodness you only fired MFS instead of a full military load 5.56. Bad ammo doesn't shear lugs at the back of the receiver: bad ammo blows up chambers and forward receivers. I don't think it would be a stretch to suggest that Colt's lawyers replaced the rifle... either way, its fixed.
Donny Fenn1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Kootenays
Yeah just look at Brandon Webb AKA FAT WEBB! His book is great, to bad he is rubbing a little to close to CNN in all the wrong ways.
I'd hardly call Brandon "fat".
We know something went wrong with the first shot after that everything ran smoothly until it fell apart. The op never explained how he cleared the stuck round and maybe that was part of the reason it failed. Also the case split rather than separated which means the gas release is not the same as during a separation.
In the end they made a good customer satisfaction decision and replaced the upper. Cost them less than 1000 and showed everyone that they stand behind their products.
Too bad that on cgn we have a bunch of truthers out there using their many years of experience in internet expertise to discredit a company who has been One of the better ones on here when it comes to communication with the public.
In the end they made a good customer satisfaction decision and replaced the upper. Cost them less than 1000 and showed everyone that they stand behind their products.
Too bad that on cgn we have a bunch of truthers out there using their many years of experience in internet expertise to discredit a company who has been One of the better ones on here when it comes to communication with the public.
You obviously have not researched it too well or you would know that the rear end of the gas key will come back well past the edge of the buffer tube before it contacts the charging handle up front. As seen below.
Charging handle is latched shut, and BCG has been slid down until it contacts the charging handle. You will notice that the rear edge of the gas key is well back past the front edge of the receiver extension.
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You obviously have not researched it too well or you would know that the rear end of the gas key will come back well past the edge of the buffer tube before it contacts the charging handle up front. As seen below.
Charging handle is latched shut, and BCG has been slid down until it contacts the charging handle. You will notice that the rear edge of the gas key is well back past the front edge of the receiver extension.
Aaaaand you obviously didn't read the entire thread and where I said it was poorly worded on my part and I attempted to explain better.....it's a whole 7 posts above this one.....
Pardon me for bumping in late to this thread -- three different folks emailed me this, but I have been travelling.
Can I ask what the bolt looked like -- was the extractor and ejector still intact? I am curious about this, as it seems rounds where fired after this round -- one safety aspect of the M16FOW, is that with a dangerous overpressure round the extractor will blow out - and gasses will also generally blow out the bottom of the carrier into the mag.
I've seen a lot of gun damaged either by operator error, ammunition, or destructive intent in testing.
The only times I have seen the rear lug break is when a user has repeatedly slammed the upper closed on a lower that has the rear take down pin closed.
Given the lack of damage to the rear of the Lower and receiver extension (buffer tube) - I don't see how it can be from a carrier impact -- as I have seen a number of guns with those impacts - and they are visible - and never result in upper receiver lug shear.
I would offer that due to looking at previous Root Cause Analysis of these issues one (or a mix of) 2 causes occurred here, with #2 being the most likely
1) there was a pre-existing fissure/defect in the upper forging that was not detected earlier - it does happen regardless of the forging house that sometime the forging has some issues
2) a user inadvertently slammed the upper down on the lower when the pin was closed, this could have been a CC employee, someone at the dealer/dist, or the owner or a friend of his.
Either way I would say that CC really stepped up to the plate when they could have simply said - suck it call the ammo company, or your broke it...
and needless to say I am glad no one was injured.
Can I ask what the bolt looked like -- was the extractor and ejector still intact? I am curious about this, as it seems rounds where fired after this round -- one safety aspect of the M16FOW, is that with a dangerous overpressure round the extractor will blow out - and gasses will also generally blow out the bottom of the carrier into the mag.
I've seen a lot of gun damaged either by operator error, ammunition, or destructive intent in testing.
The only times I have seen the rear lug break is when a user has repeatedly slammed the upper closed on a lower that has the rear take down pin closed.
Given the lack of damage to the rear of the Lower and receiver extension (buffer tube) - I don't see how it can be from a carrier impact -- as I have seen a number of guns with those impacts - and they are visible - and never result in upper receiver lug shear.
I would offer that due to looking at previous Root Cause Analysis of these issues one (or a mix of) 2 causes occurred here, with #2 being the most likely
1) there was a pre-existing fissure/defect in the upper forging that was not detected earlier - it does happen regardless of the forging house that sometime the forging has some issues
2) a user inadvertently slammed the upper down on the lower when the pin was closed, this could have been a CC employee, someone at the dealer/dist, or the owner or a friend of his.
Either way I would say that CC really stepped up to the plate when they could have simply said - suck it call the ammo company, or your broke it...
and needless to say I am glad no one was injured.
Some of us have said the same things earlier but according to some people on this board what the #### do we know
Colt Canada says it's the ammo so it's the ammo.
Maybe coming from an industry professional they may begin to get it or they may say you're just jealous of the success of Colt Canada has had with their civilian rifles.
My other comment concerning the mag blowing out went away as part of the massive thread cleanup that came earlier due to a pissing contest between a couple of members.
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
And I can get Norinco Ar15 for $500!
Most of the times you get what you paid when it comes to firearms (or anything in general) but sometimes you paid too much.
Some of us have said the same things earlier but according to some people on this board what the #### do we know
Colt Canada says it's the ammo so it's the ammo.
Maybe coming from an industry professional they may begin to get it or they may say you're just jealous of the success of Colt Canada has had with their civilian rifles.
My other comment concerning the mag blowing out went away as part of the massive thread cleanup that came earlier due to a pissing contest between a couple of members.
Believe the biggest problem was that people assumed what happened from a couple of crappy pictures and without proof said it was a flaw in the firearm. People are stupid much like the ferguson issue with lying witnesses the first thing people hear is usually what they remember and believe even if it is wrong.
No one even asked themselves if the op damaged it when clearing the round which to me would be the most obvious question to ask. Everyone automatically blamed the gun. Which in 5 years you will still have morons mentioning how cc ars are crap because some expert on the internets said they were
It is no mean feat to produce a "root cause analysis" based on a web picture.
As it turns out the OP and myself are the only ones here to look at the actual rifle involved.
Colt Canada examined the rifle of discussion with over 100 years of engineering experience, and real, professional engineers and technicians. Colt Canada, the Centre of Excellence for Small Arms for the Government of Canada, is responsible for small arms production, engineering and analysis including conducting investigations of exactly this kind.
The strangest thing by far about this thread is not that the damage is unique, but rather that a competing manufacturer would have the poor judgment to use the opportunity to undermine another manufacturer in a public forum.
Of all the gun damage Kevin claims to have seen and has based his analysis on, I would be curious exactly how many involved a breech overpressure incident in an improved hammer forged carbine chamber with steel cased ammunition? Colt Canada was able to re-create the incident in a lab with consistent damage using steel cased ammo.
It seems that the Knight’s Armament’s “laboratory” re-creation of the exact same type of incident would have been lacking a few of the fundamental components, like the specific kind of rifle, the specific kind of ammunition, and any first hand knowledge of any part of the incident.
Kevin’s description of a "dangerous overpressure round" sounds an awful lot like an incident with a conventional brass case. Colt Canada has seen and created a great many of these types of breach overpressures in many different ways. They have been recorded with high-speed cameras, subject to numerous modern methods of examination and the components cataloged for future reference and use in training organizations to conduct formal firearms investigations. Noting that the key element in this particular incident was notably different than a conventional breach overpressure we discounted those findings and compared the damage with breach overpressures with that type of case. I’m sure Knight’s Armament’s root cause examiner noticed that too.
Kevin did say "generally". Of course, this is a pretty “specific” incident that the OP experienced involving a steel case and a not a brass case. Would you be prepared to testify in court as to how a steel case should fail when improperly charged with this exact firearm? Colt Canada would, and we have a generous amount of experience, qualification and evidence to support our findings.
The user described an overpressure incident with a rather loud bang and had a very difficult time removing the bulged case. Readers might have also noted that he decided to continue firing until the component failed. Many readers seemed not to have noticed that Colt Canada readily agreed to formally examine the item, and did so very quickly, and then decided to repair the rifle despite the fact that it had been modified by the user and that there was an ammunition incident.
Kevin might have also noted where Colt Canada pointed out in this thread that the material had been examined and eliminated the possibility that “there was a pre-existing fissure/defect in the upper forging that was not detected earlier”. Of course if you have any evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it.
Arousal?
Good job CC
Guys, trust CC on this. They are fully aware that a lower will flex under recoil and under severe recoil the rear lug may take load. Without any doubt they know this.
I believe they are telling us the failed lug sheer force was upwards due to severe recoil. Learn something. They could have told you severe recoil cause the rear lug to take load and NOBODY could prove them wrong. For conspiracy theorists that do not trust, think of that. It seems to me they might know something others don't.
Hitzy, the buffer tilts and looks like it sticks out too much at the top but it's good. The tube installation looks perfect in the pic.
CC, I'd trade any of my brand new unfired ar's for one of yours. If I sell one, I'm buying a CC
Merry Christmas guys
Guys, trust CC on this. They are fully aware that a lower will flex under recoil and under severe recoil the rear lug may take load. Without any doubt they know this.
I believe they are telling us the failed lug sheer force was upwards due to severe recoil. Learn something. They could have told you severe recoil cause the rear lug to take load and NOBODY could prove them wrong. For conspiracy theorists that do not trust, think of that. It seems to me they might know something others don't.
Hitzy, the buffer tilts and looks like it sticks out too much at the top but it's good. The tube installation looks perfect in the pic.
CC, I'd trade any of my brand new unfired ar's for one of yours. If I sell one, I'm buying a CC
Merry Christmas guys
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